Why do we even need TPGs?

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This is well said and describes my experience. I got back into collecting 4 years ago, and three of the first four raw cards I purchased were determined to be trimmed or altered. I know there are long time collectors who would scoff at my ignorance, but frankly, I don't have the time to study the nuances of every card I want to collect or go back and forth with dealers on condition debates. To me, the TPGs mitigate the downsides of being relatively new to the hobby.

I fully understand where you are coming from. However, to me, slabs create a museum-esque, hands-off environment that will prevent you from EVER acquiring the skills of a lifetime. Perhaps reserving slabs for the expensive cards or the ones on their last leg could be an option.

Which era or sets are you chasing?

[EldoEsq]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I fully understand where you are coming from. However, to me, slabs create a museum-esque, hands-off environment that will prevent you from EVER acquiring the skills of a lifetime. Perhaps reserving slabs for the expensive cards or the ones on their last leg could be an option.

Which era or sets are you chasing?

Well, this goes both ways. If he buys slabbed cards and studies them, he will learn a lot more quicker. He is not learning by the trial and error of a novice, he is following "experts" and their opinions...

Those of us that have been collecting WAY before slabs had to learn the hard way. I might have picked up 5 reprints before I found a genuine example back in the day. Plus with grading? Grades have changed immensely even since stabbing started. Look at a psa5 that is 15 years old compared to today...trust me, I own them!

As many before have mentioned, TPG's are far from perfect, but they make the entire hobby much more liquid and safer.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I fully understand where you are coming from. However, to me, slabs create a museum-esque, hands-off environment that will prevent you from EVER acquiring the skills of a lifetime. Perhaps reserving slabs for the expensive cards or the ones on their last leg could be an option.

Which era or sets are you chasing?

I'm collecting mid-grade HOFers from T206, 14 Cracker Jack, T202, 33, 34, and 38 Goudey, and Delong. I kind of view these cards personally as museum-esque, so I prefer them to be encapsulated for posterity. It was satisfying to hold a T206 common I once bought at a local show, but I'm not sure holding it advanced my skills so much as my connection to the card and the era from which it came.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I'm collecting mid-grade HOFers from T206, 14 Cracker Jack, T202, 33, 34, and 38 Goudey, and Delong. I kind of view these cards personally as museum-esque, so I prefer them to be encapsulated for posterity. It was satisfying to hold a T206 common I once bought at a local show, but I'm not sure holding it advanced my skills so much as my connection to the card and the era from which it came.

I agree that the cards you are chasing may be strong candidates for slabs. The financial stake is high enough that it is probably best to err on the side of caution.

The "connection" you speak of, as hokey as it may sound, is actually the first step of the lifetime of experience that I mentioned. Try holding a Dover Reprint and see if it "feels" like it comes the T206 era. Hint: It doesn't.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I'm collecting mid-grade HOFers from T206, 14 Cracker Jack, T202, 33, 34, and 38 Goudey, and Delong. I kind of view these cards personally as museum-esque, so I prefer them to be encapsulated for posterity. It was satisfying to hold a T206 common I once bought at a local show, but I'm not sure holding it advanced my skills so much as my connection to the card and the era from which it came.

Neat stuff to collect. And yes, that's stuff that probably should be graded.

The big divide is between now where someone new might buy one T206 that's not graded but is in a toploader or cardsaver, and having collected when a dealer might have a stack of 50+ just loose on a case or out on the table. Unfortunately it takes handling a LOT of cards before you get that ability to hold one and know it just feels "wrong" somehow. I'm not sure it's even possible for most newer collectors to ever get that sort of chance.

Given a bit of time I could probably explain most of it in person using cards I've had for years. I've also been lucky in having a mind that works just the right way to "see" the little things that are the clues to problems.

And I miss stuff too. One card I had graded didn't do as well as I'd thought it would. When I asked about it in person at a show they pointed out the small erased mark on the back that I'd missed. And I'd had the card for a bit over 30 years!

Steve B

[tschock]

Originally Posted by steve B

And I miss stuff too. One card I had graded didn't do as well as I'd thought it would. When I asked about it in person at a show they pointed out the small erased mark on the back that I'd missed. And I'd had the card for a bit over 30 years!

Steve B

Steve,

Hmmm... I wonder. It is a well known fact that not only do gremlins come in the middle of the night and remove commons from your sets that you thought you had, but they also add marks to, or remove paper from, items you have owned for a while. Thus getting you to think you remembered the cards in better condition than currently are. You didn't miss it. It was just altered by the little devils.

[steve B]

That would be a decent explanation. I like it better as it makes me seem less clueless

Steve B

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by tschock

Steve,

Hmmm... I wonder. It is a well known fact that not only do gremlins come in the middle of the night and remove commons from your sets that you thought you had, but they also add marks to, or remove paper from, items you have owned for a while. Thus getting you to think you remembered the cards in better condition than currently are. You didn't miss it. It was just altered by the little devils.

That is ALMOST correct. It is actually POST-WAR GREMLINS that come in in the middle of the night and remove commons from your sets that you thought you had, but they also add marks to, or remove paper from, items you have owned for a while. Thus getting you to think you remembered the cards in better condition than currently are. You didn't miss it. It was just altered by the little devils. Conversely POST-WAR collectors get messed with by PRE-WAR GREMLINS. Collectors that collect both get a double whammy. Every once in a while the two hordes meet and scare the shit out of each other. They don't bother cleaning up after themselves but the collector blames the dog.