Mantle cards as investments

[mattjc1983]

A relevant question is, is something an investment if you're knowingly buying it at the top of the market?

Granted, "top" doesn't necessarily mean "peak" but I certainly don't go out of my way to buy my stocks when they're at the highest price they've been at in recent history.


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[ALR-bishop]

No one would want to buy at the "top" of the market, but I wonder how many investors buy a stock because they read an article in the WSJ about how well it was doing and hoped the trend would continue, even though the ship had likely sailed.

I read the article as more of a "you should have kept you cards because..." rahter than you should buy now.

[rjackson44]

if you got these 15 years ago you did very well ..

[ALR-bishop]

Larry S ( sflyank) has raised this question before. Given the increase in his Topps base cards reflected in the article and in particular his 52 card which is certainly not hard to find, why has there not seemed to be a similar jump in his rare or scarce Topps items that would be on the list of any master Mantle collector...such as Topps 61 Dice, 63 Mask, 66 or 67 Punch Outs, 67 of 68 Discs , or 67 Stand Up. All of these would fetch a high price but probably no where near a top notch 52 card

I get that odd ball items are not as well known in general and so demand is less, but Mantle collectors surely know about them and getting some of those items is next to impossible. Just a matter of curiosity to me.

These things do not come up often and given the current Mantle market if they did maybe the prices would be significantly higher than in the past

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Larry S ( sflyank) has raised this question before. Given the increase in his Topps base cards reflected in the article and in particular his 52 card which is certainly not hard to find, why has there not seemed to be a similar jump in his rare or scarce Topps items that would be on the list of any master Mantle collector...such as Topps 61 Dice, 63 Mask, 66 or 67 Punch Outs, 67 of 68 Discs , or 67 Stand Up. All of these would fetch a high price but probably no where near a top notch 52 card

I get that odd ball items are not as well known in general and so demand is less, but Mantle collectors surely know about them and getting some of those items is next to impossible. Just a matter of curiosity to me.

These things do not come up often and given the current Mantle market if they did maybe the prices would be significantly higher than in the past

The 63 Mask probably isn't a Topps product, but, the few that I have seen for sale over the last year or two seem to have brought a decent price, despite being poorly listed on eBay and despite red flags.

The others don't trade hands enough, in my opinion, for us to really get a fair look at the price. How could they when you and Larry own basically everything that exists? That said, I don't think they get as much respect given their lack of appeal to the less informed collectors. The Master Set guys "need everything" and have resigned themselves to never being able to pick those up either because you have them all or because of the price, and they don't have the same appeal to the non-collectors with the massive bankrolls that just want that one trophy item. If I should a Dice Game card to a non-collector, he would say, "that's kind of boring looking." Every non-collector that was a kid in the 80s is excited when they see a 1952 Topps though.

[larietrope]

I'm a long time friend of Bobby Richardson, we have a breakfast group that meets every Friday called the ROMEO club, retired old men eating out.
I often kidded Bobby that I could afford his cards but not Mickey Mantle's.
Bobby's a wonderful person, very humble, friendly, and always goes out of his way to make a stranger feel like a long time friend.
Great stories about the Yankee days. He and Kubek were the milkshake twins.
He always signs his autograph in a beautiful, very legible way. He explained he met Stan Musial as a kid and got his autograph. He was so impressed with Musial's autograph quality that when people began asking for his autograph he promised himself that if people were nice enough to ask for his signature he'd write it as nicely as possible. Look at any Richardson autograph and you'll see what I mean.
A quality man.
I do have 2 1952 Topps Mantles. I've had for many, many years.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by mattjc1983

A relevant question is, is something an investment if you're knowingly buying it at the top of the market?

Granted, "top" doesn't necessarily mean "peak" but I certainly don't go out of my way to buy my stocks when they're at the highest price they've been at in recent history.


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They have a saying about that: Bulls and Bears can each make money, but Pigs get slaughtered! Except for a few very scarce to outright rare Mantles, IMHO, it is a very good time to sell, with a good chance that you will be able to buy back later at a significant discount. See the coin market of the late '80's.

Good luck, guys,

Larry

[Volod]

One of my fondest collecting fantasies involves a demo crew in a NY suburb opening up an old warehouse padlocked for sixty years and finding hundreds of cases of pristine 1952 Topps high-numbered cards that had somehow escaped the stachybotris and mildew threats. I wonder what that might do to the investment potential of Mr. Mantle's card?

[glynparson]

The Rare Mantle Test Issues especially the dice game would sell for a fortune in a Heritage, REA, Goodwin Auction. Maybe not 1952 Topps 9-10 money but it would be a pretty penny.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

The Rare Mantle Test Issues especially the dice game would sell for a fortune in a Heritage, REA, Goodwin Auction. Maybe not 1952 Topps 9-10 money but it would be a pretty penny.

And I think Glyn would agree that those that have them, i.e., knowledgeable collectors, know full well what they have, treasure them, and are in no hurry to get rid of them. I would expect them to come out only in situations of financial distress (heaven forbid--been there) or in an estate auction.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

Unfortunately, much of the attention (and money) of less 'focused' collectors goes into cards like the 1952 Mantle: great but not rare. Truly rare cards are all too often truly obscure cards as well. It may be a hell of a lot easier to find a 1952 Topps Mantle than a dice game, but it is also a hell of a lot easier to find willing buyers for it.

It also seems that once a card achieves a certain level of notoriety, its price is not determined the same as the rest of the cards out there, by basic collector demand and supply. It becomes iconic and takes on a life of its own as a pop culture icon. The line about guys displaying their Mantle cards next to their art is telling in that regard.

[ls7plus]

It has been my experience over several fields of collectibles that rare and significant (in this case, the significance derives from the fact that it is Mantle) wins out in the long run. In coins, see the six-figure values attached to colonials and territorial gold when 15 or less are known. That was definitely not the case in the early '90's. Same with cars: '71 Hemi Cuda convertible (about 12 made; worth seven figures, and not considered a very good combination at the time of its manufacture due to the awesomely heavy 426 hemi motor, coupled with the heavier weight of the convertible and less stiffness in that body style--cowl shake, anyone?); and '67 L-88 Corvette (with the very radical, race-only 427--just 20 made, and who knows how many survived? Not even known of by many Corvette enthusiasts of the time; now $3-$4 million dollars all day long).

Similarly, Shelby's Daytona Cobra Coups, an aerodynamic design by Pete Brock in the sixties, were obsolete race cars by the late '60's to early seventies, and someone bought all six for $12,000--Shelby was glad to get rid of them, Now? 22 million dollars apiece, per Automobile Magazine.

Thinking a little outside the box may get you miles ahead in the long run--it's your chance to take!

Best of luck in collecting,

Larry