Value of T206 E.Collins??

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by rats60

Agree with Kevin. This post is exactly what is wrong with WAR. Ave, RBI and Runs Scored are 3 of the most important stats. By ignoring them, you are not evolving, you are devolving. The goal of the game is to score runs. The team that does, wins the game, not the one who gets the most walks, baserunners, etc. WAR doesn't care about what wins games, but greatly over values a truly worthless stat, walks. It is also pretty much ignores half of the equation, run prevention. And maybe one day they will truly adjust for park, instead of just claiming they do.

We all understand that raw RBI and runs numbers are flawed, but rather than throw them away and just use fantasy stats, you should look at how players perform when given the opportunity to score runs. Who cares about a guy who walks with RISP and leads to another goose egg? What is truly valuable is the guy who gets a hit and drives in runs.
.

it isn't made up, it is based on things that are actually to the credit of the individual player. runs and rbi's are determined by the quality of the surrounding players and thus have no bearing on individual production.

I only replied to an insult ,sir. You flat earthers can't yell at us and say 'stupid stats, yer stupid...blah blah blah" and expect to not be belittled in return. If you don't understand something maybe instead of hand waving it away like a child you could go and read about it . (btw I love how ALL THE OTHER EFFING DATA, I posted was ignored and instead I get the tired old anti-WAR argument. )

WAR is not science, it is made up (by people who I wonder if they ever watch the game). It will be time to use new metrics when they actually reflect what they are supposed to. Insulting those who observe that the emperor has no clothes is never going to evolve the way we look at stats

its' based on far superior stats and it applies to everyone equally, so even if there are small quibbles with it (and it isn't perfect, but neither are any other stats) the quibbles provide a ratio of performance that, magically, seems to agree on who the greatest players are.


I bet you don't even know what WAR is, how it is calculated or how to figure it out! You just get mad because it's new and you don't like change and refuse to stop believing in the flat earth of batting avg, pitcher wins and RBI'S. well, maybe instead od throwing a tantrum and putting your hands over your ears you could do a little reading.


P.S. none of these modern metrics have anything to do with fantasy baseball.zero, zilch nada. they have to do with doing the work to determine what is ACTUALLY important and not what people just assumed was important. your appeal to tradition fallacy is not an argument

[swarmee]

Maybe the WAR discussion can be moved to the Off-Topic zone, because which deadball era player scores highest in modern metrics does not affect their baseball card PRICES/demand at all. Just because a guy was better than another does not mean that his card's prices follow suit.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

it isn't made up, it is based on things that are actually to the credit of the individual player. runs and rbi's are determined by the quality of the surrounding players and thus have no bearing on individual production.

I only replied to an insult ,sir. You flat earthers can't yell at us and say 'stupid stats, yer stupid...blah blah blah" and expect to not be belittled in return. If you don't understand something maybe instead of hand waving it away like a child you could go and read about it . (btw I love how ALL THE OTHER EFFING DATA, I posted was ignored and instead I get the tired old anti-WAR argument. )

That is absolutely false. RBI are determined by how well you perform in scoring opportunities. If you are Barry Bonds in the postseason, then you only drive in 3 runs in 20 games, despite having plenty of opportunities, it is because you hit .191. Let's just ignore what actually happens and create a theoretical system to apply to everyone. You can't do that, baseball isn't even played on a uniform field and these metrics pretty much ignore that.

These are fantasy stats, because they choose to completely ignore or seriously undervalue important parts of the game. It's funny that you use the term flat earth because that is exactly what I think people using WAR, OPS+, etc. are. It is like we are in the Dark Ages and the Catholic Church is telling us what to believe, ignoring the science of previous generations like the Greeks. Maybe one day people who understand baseball and mathematics will fix this and give credibility to WAR.