Ebay as the shill bidder

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ebay isn't doing anything. The seller is making an offer. You can see the bid history and judge for yourself whether you think the high bid was legit or not. If you don't want the card at the price you were just willing to pay because you suspect shenanigans, pass. How this is an issue is beyond me.

PS - I block all non paying bidders.....if you checked my history on the Spahn card, the person who won the first one, will be nowhere near the 2nd one. I won't allow it. I also block retractors. Just makes life easier.

[pokerplyr80]

What about the option of emailing the seller and offering him 335, or 350 and see what happens since it appears you no longer want to pay 410?

[glynparson]

Op's argument makes no sense to me. This is not shill bidding it isn't even close to it. It could be exploited by schill bidders but it is in no way the same thing. I think the system as it is currently set up is the fairest way to handle it. They do not require you to except a second chance offer so I fail to see the issue.

[ALR-bishop]

I am just a buyer on eBay. If I get a 2nd offer from a seller does it always come through eBay pursuant to their price protocol being discussed here, or does the seller have the ability to contact buyers independently with an offer. ? Did sellers ever have that capability ?

[Snapolit1]

I had an auction last month where some numb nuts bailed on the auction an hour before it closed. Had been the winning bidder for days. Wasn't a shill bidder but some supposed charitable type organization. I have no idea what their deal is. Should eBay have penalized me as seller because someone effed with my auction? I don't think so. I would have been really pissed off if they had offered my item carte blance to the underbidder at his losing bid.

I have rejected every second chance offer I've ever received, assuming some kind of shenanigans went on.

[celoknob]

I generally agree with the OP, although I would probably not call it eBay shilling or illegal just poor practice.

Once the high bid was determined to be a non paying bidder or otherwise fraudulent then the auction is compromised. Once the auction is compromised there is no valid reason to use an invalid bid to determine the appropriate price point. If any 'second chance offer' seller option is automated through eBay, it should be the next increment above the new 2nd highest bidder.

Two other points:

1) this practice could certainly encourage sellers to get a buddy to shill bid for them knowing there is less risk if they accidentally over shill and the reward is the option of offering the item (possibly well) above true auction value or having the buyer reject but now with the seller having valuable information of what someone will max bid on it. We certainly know this shilling by acquaintences or by using second accounts happens and is not always easy to detect.

2) of course the seller can just offer the card as a buy it now to the new high bidder at their maxed out bid from the compromised auction, but this should not be an automated eBay feature and as a buyer I would be weary it could have been shilled. In any case the seller is benefitting and the buyer is losing from the inappropriate activity whether it was selling or not.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by celoknob

I generally agree with the OP, although I would probably not call it eBay shilling or illegal just poor practice.

Once the high bid was determined to be a non paying bidder or otherwise fraudulent then the auction is compromised. Once the auction is compromised there is no valid reason to use an invalid bid to determine the appropriate price point. If any 'second chance offer' seller option is automated through eBay, it should be the next increment above the new 2nd highest bidder.

Two other points:

1) this practice could certainly encourage sellers to get a buddy to shill bid for them knowing there is less risk if they accidentally over shill and the reward is the option of offering the item (possibly well) above true auction value or having the buyer reject but now with the seller having valuable information of what someone will max bid on it. We certainly know this shilling by acquaintences or by using second accounts happens and is not always easy to detect.

2) of course the seller can just offer the card as a buy it now to the new high bidder at their maxed out bid from the compromised auction, but this should not be an automated eBay feature and as a buyer I would be weary it could have been shilled. In any case the seller is benefitting and the buyer is losing from the inappropriate activity whether it was selling or not.

The problem with your scenario is that you have the THIRD place bidder determining the price of the auction. The third place bidder rarely enters a competitive bid. Also you may have had some failed snipes not go off because they were higher than the 3rd place bidder but lower than the winning bidder (whose bid is determined by the underbidder).

[SMPEP]

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

I don't engage in shill bidding!! I don't like NON-PAYING BIDDERS the same as every other sellers. Get off of your high horse! You are wrong, and totally missing the point.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Bobby - by your own flawed logic - no one told you as a seller that you HAD to make a second chance offer (to the 2nd, 3rd or 45th place buyer). You as a seller LIKE that Ebay shill bid my $37 bid up from the next increment of $21 - because YOU like the $37 price better and don't want the hassle of listing another auction.

So gee, what have we all learned ... sellers LIKE shill bidding. Buyers don't.

I guess that's not a real shock.

The $37 bid is closer to where the auction should land. More so than the $20 which is a steal, or the level based upon a card one grade lower! Sounds like you need a lesson in basic economics! Or a VCP subscription. Maybe both.....