Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

A member was trying to sell a vintage Nazi Flag in the proper section with Leons approval. Then a few idiots had to make posts in the thread that had nothing to do with buying it or asking questions about it. Sadly that has become common place lately.

Not sure what happened that it went POOF though.

I think you have to be living under a rock to assume the posting of a nazi flag wont elicit some comments that have nothing to do with buying the nazi flag.

To compare that posting with the sale of a baseball card as far as having the same b/s/t eitiquette is a bit of a stretch

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

It's actually not like that at all. You're placing scientific speculation against studied facts. My point was one person' anecdotal evidence does not trump a Department of Justice investigation and she may not be aware of the indignities experienced by the people around her, who live their own lives independent of her own. I didn't tell you to get into an argument with her either.

I find it enlightening to hear her perspective as someone with no ulterior motive nor influence. I thought I would share this perspective with the understanding that it is all hearsay to anyone that I am sharing it with. I acknowledge that she only has one perspective. I also understand that you don't know her so you have to take what I am second hand reporting to you with a grain of salt. I just thought I would share this seldom heard voice from someone that has an opinion based off a life lived in the circumstances and not someone forming an opinion with an outside-looking-in perspective.

I can tell you, though, that she is not ignorant about her surroundings and any suggestions otherwise by me or anyone else will not lead to a peaceful back and forth conversation, hence my use of the word "argue".

[ALR-bishop]

Flags can get you in trouble, even a Flags Of The World ISIS trading card...bam

[tschock]

My sentiments on trying to provide "studied facts" as well as other items to consider can be summed up below:

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocketful of mumbles,
Such are promises
All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

[ibuysportsephemera]

1) If you are interested in a coach's (and by extension the entire organizations) take on the National Anthem...watch the clip below from HBO's Hard Knocks about the LA Rams training camp. Way to go Coach Jeff Fisher...great example that (IMO) should be followed by all others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inzwAWOXlbg

2) My Father in Law is a retired Police Officer and many of my good friends are PO's. One is a PO in the South Bronx in New York City and he works in a neighborhood that is almost 100% minority. So, all of the arrests, questionings etc. make it look like the PO's are racist.

Unless your family member is a PO or you are friendly with a PO you cannot even begin to understand how difficult the job is and how skewed the statistics are.

Jeff

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Flags can get you in trouble...

Apparently so. Now the Gadsden Flag is considered racist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f89946075fac

Maybe they could shorten the list by telling us what's not racist instead of telling us what is racist? Just a thought.

[vintagetoppsguy]

BTW, Leon, why is Packs still allowed to post w/o his full name?

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

BTW, Leon, why is Packs still allowed to post w/o his full name?

+1...I was thinking the same thing.

Jeff

[autograf]

David.......my side is somewhere squarely in the middle but you brought up Ben Watson and I hadn't seen that info on him, and I'm thoroughly impressed with. In it, however, he makes the statement............

"Kaepernick's actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such."


Assuming you saw that, although you likely don't agree with it. Eloquent words from Watson throughout that article. Thanks for linking it.

[EvilKing00]

for those who dont follow hockey



u sit for the national anthem you sit for the game


http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/0...al-anthem.html

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

+1...I was thinking the same thing.

Jeff

Packs? You know the rules....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by autograf

Assuming you saw that, although you likely don't agree with it.

Hello, Tom. Actually, I did see that and I do agree with it. I voted #2 - Dont like what hes doing but hes got the right to do it.

He's within his legal right to do it. But just because it's legally right, doesn't mean it's morally right. You can go to Japan (or many European countries) and have legal consensual sex with a 14 year old girl if you want to. Does that make it morally right?

But, just because it's his legal right to do so doesn't mean that the team can't cut him for it. Again, I voted #2, but I think as a consequence he should be cut from the team. I can go to Colorado and smoke dope on my vacation. Perfectly legal. But my employer also has the legal right to piss test me when I get back and fire me for violating their drug policy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I was reading an article this morning about some female soccer player that was also kneeling (or maybe it was sitting) for the national anthem. The opposing home team found a way around that. They played the national anthem before the players took the field, not giving her an opportunity to kneel. Hopefully all the NFL teams will do the same.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I was reading an article this morning about some female soccer player that was also kneeling (or maybe it was sitting) for the national anthem. The opposing home team found a way around that. They played the national anthem before the players took the field, not giving her an opportunity to kneel. Hopefully all the NFL teams will do the same.

will be tough to do that. There would be countermeasures from the players as well. Cant imagine baseball for example with the players not being able to take part in the anthem

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Cant imagine baseball for example with the players not being able to take part in the anthem

Play it in the locker room as it plays throughout the stadium. The players can choose to sit or stand.

[packs]

My name is Frank I'm having a civil discussion with some posters and ignoring others who are calling for my name. I don't feel the need to engage those posters and will continue not to.

[vintagetoppsguy]

2 things:

1). It's your FULL name
2). Yes, it's been pretty civil, but you're also giving an opinion which still requires your FULL name

[packs]

This matter is closed.

[ibuysportsephemera]

It's a shame that people who engage in online discussion/conversation don't have enough conviction in their beliefs to post their full name. Just my 2¢.

Jeff

[Mdmtx]

Rules must not apply to packs. He must be repressed and therefore needs a special exclusion to the rules the rest of us follow. Amazing that a person spewing the crap he has been spewing would have the opinion he is above the rules. Lmfao.

Mark Medlin

[ALR-bishop]

Name should be out there like everyone else. Just my opinion though

At least Colin owned it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Rules must not apply to packs. He must be repressed and therefore needs a special exclusion to the rules the rest of us follow. Amazing that a person spewing the crap he has been spewing would have the opinion he is above the rules. Lmfao.

Mark Medlin

Rules apply to everyone and that is why he is not posting anymore, The alternative is to have him edit out all of his comments, which I prefer not to ask him to do.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Name should be out there like everyone else. Just my opinion though

At least Colin owned it.

Colin is protesting the police's treatment of men of color. I am with David James on this one. He should be more angry at the obscenely high crime rate that blacks commit. If that percentage was lower, I think the problem would diminish. So how about instead of protesting the police, how about protesting the criminals??? Now THERE is a novel idea!

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Colin is protesting the police's treatment of men of color. I am with David James on this one. He should be more angry at the obscenely high crime rate that blacks commit. If that percentage was lower, I think the problem would diminish. So how about instead of protesting the police, how about protesting the criminals??? Now THERE is a novel idea!

He's protesting the treatment of the hundreds of thousands of American citizens who have committed no crime, yet have been arrested, beaten or even killed for it.

I think that's a cause we can all get behind.

[Kingcobb]

What aggravates me about this whole situation is at my 13 year old daughters junior high volleyball game last night 2 girls from the team they were playing did not stand for the national anthem. One of the girls was white the other black I don't think these kids should be worried about this at this age. But thanks to Colin more young people are entering into to this anti-american mindset. Needless to say instead of enjoying my kids game I ending up thinking how screwed up our country has become. Sorry for the rant.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

What aggravates me about this whole situation is at my 13 year old daughters junior high volleyball game last night 2 girls from the team they were playing did not stand for the national anthem. One of the girls was white the other black I don't think these kids should be worried about this at this age. But thanks to Colin more young people are entering into to this anti-american mindset. Needless to say instead of enjoying my kids game I ending up thinking how screwed up our country has become. Sorry for the rant.

Thats awful.

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

instead of enjoying my kids game I ending up thinking how screwed up our country has become.

sad, but true...myself, I think about how lucky we all are to live in such a great overall country and
while I try to remain positive looking toward the future, in many ways (and for many reasons) I'm
seeing a potential sh!tstorm on the horizon, and hoping I'm wrong.

JMO

DS

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

But just because it's legally right, doesn't mean it's morally right.

So who made you the arbiter of what's moral and what isn't? Just because you don't think it's morally right doesn't mean that it isn't morally right to Colin. You trying to force your morals on others? That's very un-American.

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Colin is protesting the police's treatment of men of color. I am with David James on this one. He should be more angry at the obscenely high crime rate that blacks commit. If that percentage was lower, I think the problem would diminish. So how about instead of protesting the police, how about protesting the criminals??? Now THERE is a novel idea!

Wow! This statement is really something. Are you really trying to justify the murder of unarmed blacks and the harassment of blacks by police because of what you consider an "obscenely high crime rate that blacks commit"? Wow, just wow!

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

What aggravates me about this whole situation is at my 13 year old daughters junior high volleyball game last night 2 girls from the team they were playing did not stand for the national anthem. One of the girls was white the other black I don't think these kids should be worried about this at this age. But thanks to Colin more young people are entering into to this anti-american mindset. Needless to say instead of enjoying my kids game I ending up thinking how screwed up our country has become. Sorry for the rant.

Again, I'm amazed. Voicing a concern about the treatment of a segment of the population is an "anti-american (sic) mindset." And by the way, what's with not capitalizing the "A" in "American?" A simple typo or is that some form of protest and you're being anti-American?

To all: just because a person doesn't think like you do doesn't make them anti-American nor does it mean they hate this country. In this case, Colin thinks blacks are being targeted by police and so he protested. You either agree with him that blacks are being targeted by police or you don't. That's all this should be about.

However, I must reiterate, I am really stunned, sickened, and saddened that some here actually agree with Colin that blacks are being targeted by the police but that it's justified by "the obscenely high crime rate that blacks commit."

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

What aggravates me about this whole situation is at my 13 year old daughters junior high volleyball game last night 2 girls from the team they were playing did not stand for the national anthem. One of the girls was white the other black I don't think these kids should be worried about this at this age. But thanks to Colin more young people are entering into to this anti-american mindset. Needless to say instead of enjoying my kids game I ending up thinking how screwed up our country has become. Sorry for the rant.

Criticism of your country is healthy if done in a peaceful manner. Seems like their little protest did its job.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

He's protesting the treatment of the hundreds of thousands of American citizens who have committed no crime, yet have been arrested, beaten or even killed for it.

I think that's a cause we can all get behind.

He says he's protesting racial injustice, but what has he really done for the black community? If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't he fined by the NFL for using racial slurs?

Oh the hypocrisy!

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He says he's protesting racial injustice, but what has he really done for the black community? If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't he fined by the NFL for using racial slurs?

Oh the hypocrisy!

He donated $1,000,000 PLUS 100% of the proceeds from his jersey sales.

Either way, he is protesting the imprisonment, beating and murder of over one hundred thousand American citizens who did not commit a single crime.

A cause I'm sure every American can support.

[ALR-bishop]

I have said far too much in here, out

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Play it in the locker room as it plays throughout the stadium. The players can choose to sit or stand.

Then when they make a pitching change a protesting player can sit for an extra long period of time etc...always a way to protest and not be against the rules..

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He says he's protesting racial injustice, but what has he really done for the black community? If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't he fined by the NFL for using racial slurs?

Oh the hypocrisy!

Maybe you forgot this or this is not correct?

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/...fl-nflpa-49ers

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Maybe you forgot this or this is not correct?

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/...fl-nflpa-49ers

The referee heard it (he threw the flag), Lamarr Houston confirmed to the Chicago Tribune that he said it, and the NFL fined him for it...which was upheld even after Kaepernick's appeal.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

2 things:

1). It's your FULL name
2). Yes, it's been pretty civil, but you're also giving an opinion which still requires your FULL name

Maybe he's like Cher or Pele?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by PM770

Maybe he's like Cher or Pele?

Actually a full name is required when giving an opinion of a person or company So just an opinion won't require a full name. That issue with that member is dead in this thread, carry on.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Actually a full name is required when giving an opinion of a person or company So just an opinion won't require a full name. That issue with that member is dead in this thread, carry on.

I strongly disagree. I believe he gave several opinions of people. Here's one. "Castile was stopped and murdered". The officer that stopped him has not been arrested, charged or convicted of murder. To call him a murderer is a very strong opinion.

Leon, look at post #25 and #26 in this thread. You made Derrick put his name in the post and he gave no opinion at all.

Packs has been allowed to post anonymously and make very controversial statements in many controversial threads - assault weapon ban thread, Redskins name change thread and more. I don't understand why he is allowed to continue to do so. Is he being protected for some reason?

[Leon]

It is over, move on. I assure you he will be more careful in the future if he doesn't want his full name disclosed. Go argue with some others please... He isn't being protected I just haven't enforced the rule as much as Maybe I needed too. So that is my fault...

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I strongly disagree. I believe he gave several opinions of people. Here's one. "Castile was stopped and murdered". The officer that stopped him has not been arrested, charged or convicted of murder. To call him a murderer is a very strong opinion.

Leon, look at post #25 and #26 in this thread. You made Derrick put his name in the post and he gave no opinion at all.

Packs has been allowed to post anonymously and make very controversial statements in many controversial threads - assault weapon ban thread, Redskins name change thread and more. I don't understand why he is allowed to continue to do so. Is he being protected for some reason?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Understood. I'll be more careful in the future as well.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The referee heard it (he threw the flag), Lamarr Houston confirmed to the Chicago Tribune that he said it, and the NFL fined him for it...which was upheld even after Kaepernick's appeal.

"The referee heard it" - yeah, like refs are never wrong, right?

"Lamarr Houston confirmed to the Chicago Tribune that he said it" - yeah, "After Colin Kaepernick was penalized for using “inappropriate language” in a loss to the Bears on Sept. 14, Chicago defensive end Lamarr Houston said he didn’t hear the 49ers’ quarterback say anything to him." http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/...ck-5775952.php He changed his story later.

"the NFL fined him for it" - yeah, now you're either being willfully ignorant by ignoring the original article I linked to or you're lying. Here's a line from the article - "Colin Kaepernick was still fined by the NFL despite the league admitting the quarterback didn't use a racial slur, and no one is quite sure why." Do you see that? The NFL admits the quarterback didn't use a racial slur. And yet you come back with "the NFL fined him for it." A blatant lie.

So you have CK who says he didn't use a racial slur, the ref who says CK did, and LH who said CK didn't say anything and then changed that to CK did use a racial slur, a tape that shows CK saying something like "Get the f--- back," many other people around the incident who are never quoted in any article that I've seen confirming that CK used a racial slur, and lastly, the NFL admitting that CK didn't use a racial slur. And you want to stick with CK used a racial slur and the NFL fined him for it?

Please, continue on without me and don't let the facts get in the way of your witch hunt.

[autograf]

must be F with Leon Friday.......

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Understood. I'll be more careful in the future as well.

It truly is my fault. I think I might need to change the rule in bold to include debates but I try to keep the forum as open and opinionated as possible. It's not an easy task, honestly.

[Topps206]

People are calling for a boycott of the NFL on Twitter.

Whether you agree or disagree with Kaep's decision is your call. You have every right to boycott for whatever reason, but am I the only one who sers backwards priorities here?

A child abuser in back in the NFL after missing 2014. I shed a tear when I saw the pictures of his bruised son.

The NFL allowed a dog fighter back into the league after he did a prison sentence.

Many players on different rosters have abused their spouse.

A Big Ten school is honoring a coach who knowingly employed a child molester on his coaching staff.

Yet the massive outrage is over Kaepernick not standing for the anthem, something which is legal both under U.S. rules and NFL rules? He didn't victimize anyone. He ruined no one's life.

I personally wouldn't have done it, but I think from a societal standpoint, our priorities are out of whack.

[EvilKing00]

Were the 80's & 90's a more patriotic and safer time or im i just old?

Also, is this the most posts in a thread in water cooler section ever?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Were the 80's & 90's a more patriotic and safer time or im i just old?

A more obedient populous.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

A more obedient populous.

Or a more prosperous one.

[AustinMike]

For those who think this country is going downhill and are searching for a reason, might I suggest it's not people peacefully protesting but is in reality -

[tschock]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

For those who think this country is going downhill and are searching for a reason, might I suggest it's not people peacefully protesting but is in reality -

Literal LOL there. That should be the point on which to lock the thread!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Leon

It truly is my fault. I think I might need to change the rule in bold to include debates but I try to keep the forum as open and opinionated as possible. It's not an easy task, honestly.

IMO - The real problem with debates is that there are no longer any compromises...no middle ground - Everyone just still to their guns and rails against the other side...accomplishing exactly nothing...except, perhaps, raising everyone's blood pressure.

I look for the day when agreements can once again be reached.

NOW, you can lock the thread!