Photo question: Gehrig/Ruth July 4, 1939

[Lordstan]

Steve,
They are not rare, but are very desirable. Most advanced photo collectors really want one in their collection as the photo is so iconic in baseball lore. Expect to pay anywhere from $3K to probably in the $6K range depending on which pose, horizontal vs vertical, and the condition.
my 2c
Mark

[Snapolit1]

Mark - thanks. Really appreciate the info. As a follow up question: are they not rare because many photographers had that access, or are they not rare because many copies were generated soon after it happened? I guess I am wondering why, if the primary purpose of these was to get them into the newspaper the next day, why there would have been a major effort to print scads of full size copies?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Mark - thanks. Really appreciate the info. As a follow up question: are they not rare because many photographers had that access, or are they not rare because many copies were generated soon after it happened? I guess I am wondering why, if the primary purpose of these was to get them into the newspaper the next day, why there would have been a major effort to print scads of full size copies?

Define "rare". All type 1 photos are rare in the fact that if you are looking for one in particular, they could range from 0-10 most of the time with some exception(type 1s that lasted the test of time).
This particular day was a big/known event. It wasn't a nonscripted hr for example. Therefore, multiple news services were there. Hence, multiple angles/shots. It was also newsworthy so multiple photos were distributed.

Some photographers captured the hugging scene better then their counterpart. If you don't care which shot it is, then I guess that would be less rare than if you wanted one specific shot.

If you are in the market, I would hold out for either the "horizontal shot" that was used for items of memorabilia such as the cover of sleeve of the record from that day or the "vertical" shot used for the 1962 topps card(like I noted in my pm). Depending on your price point, I would also Try and get one in good shape.

[Lordstan]

My assessment of rarity has more to do with how often I see things up for sale than an absolute number of items available. Since I have been collecting photos of Gehrig(around 7-8yrs now) I would estimate that one of the various examples of these photos comes up for sale around once or twice a year. Considering there are plenty of photos that come up far less frequently than that, I don't consider this photo rare, even though there might only be a handful of each pose.
Now that fact does not make it less desirable to own one, but if there were only one known it would probably sell for waaay more money. As a comparison, the only know type 1 of Cobb sliding into third, which is certainly equally iconic sold for $49K recently. If there was only one of these, it could be the same.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

My assessment of rarity has more to do with how often I see things up for sale than an absolute number of items available. Since I have been collecting photos of Gehrig(around 7-8yrs now) I would estimate that one of the various examples of these photos comes up for sale around once or twice a year. Considering there are plenty of photos that come up far less frequently than that, I don't consider this photo rare, even though there might only be a handful of each pose.
Now that fact does not make it less desirable to own one, but if there were only one known it would probably sell for waaay more money. As a comparison, the only know type 1 of Cobb sliding into third, which is certainly equally iconic sold for $49K recently. If there was only one of these, it could be the same.

The Cobb is certainly an extreme example..and I believe there is more than 1 and I believe it went for 77k(if you're talking about the Conlon). That said, I totally get your point and agree with it.
I actually thought I addressed it when comparing to a non scripted event in differences of rarity(the other end of spectrum would be "the babe bows out shot").
1-2 a year is prob about right. Especially if you include "the holy grail" example which has come up 4 times now with 4 different sellers since February. Yikes! You could have got a bargain on that one..

I think these have come out more in the last 5 years with archives being sold. Personally I think it has given a false sense of their rarity. That said, if you go in the mindset of 5-10 of each pose, I think that would be a good starting point answering the question of "how rare" regardless of how many times they have shown up in recent years.

I hope the op finds an example they are happy with. It is certainly a special "snapshot" of baseball history.

Ps: 7-8 years already Mark? 2008? Wow.. Time flies .. You are becoming a photo, senior citizen all of a sudden. Unfortunately, there are no discounts on photos with old age

[Snapolit1]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated. You know about 100 times more about these things than folks who make a living selling them.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

I think these have come out more in the last 5 years with archives being sold. Personally I think it has given a false sense of their rarity. That said, if you go in the mindset of 5-10 of each pose, I think that would be a good starting point answering the question of "how rare" regardless of how many times they have shown up in recent years.

Totally agree with you on this point. The pricier pieces always tend to trade hands more often as they become more of a commodity or investment piece, and collectors' grips are loosened in conjunction with the rising price point. You can't really estimate the rarity of something based on how often it changes hands unless you're paying very close attention (as Ben clearly is) and take note of when the same piece flips owners multiple times.

I agree too with there being a perceived abundance of supply due to so many archives being opened up in a relatively short period of time. Drink up while you can, folks, because the well's bound to run dry at some point.

[prewarsports]

Just to quickly chime in, when we sold the Cobb Conlon photo we did pretty extensive research over several years and talked to just about everyone we knew of in the hobby. We also spoke with Henry Yee who confirmed to me that there was absolutely no other confirmed Type 1 examples of that photo known to exist that he or anyone else was aware of had ever seen as well. There are rumors that others exist, but none have ever been confirmed. If there is another one out there, it is very well hidden or likely not a real type 1. That is not say there isn't the possibility, there is just no other confirmed examples.

As for the Ruth/Gehrig photo being talked about here, it is a rare image and I have only ever seen a handful of type 1 examples of various angles in our experience. There are a bunch of type 2 and type 3-4 examples that were done in the 1940's through the 1980's as the event became more and more famous so be careful when looking to pick one up as these look old but are not type 1 examples.

Rhys

[Lordstan]

Ben,
I agree with you as well.
I used the Cobb as an extreme example as if there were only one of the Ruth Gehrig photo extant, considering the historical context of the moment, it certainly could rise closer to that type of price point.

Lance,
That is very true as well. Eventually, significant new archives will stop being found