Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[packs]

You guys are unbelievable. What do you have against admitting we have a racism problem in this country we've never overcome? Do you think there is something shameful about recognizing a failure? Because I happen to think the opposite. It is shameful to ignore a problem like systemic racism. Do you disregard the Civil Rights movement as some big to do? Or can you at least admit there was a problem then, even if you won't admit it now?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

You guys are unbelievable. What do you have against admitting we have a racism problem in this country we've never overcome? Do you think there is something shameful about recognizing a failure? Because I happen to think the opposite. It is shameful to ignore a problem like systemic racism. Do you disregard the Civil Rights movement as some big to do? Or can you at least admit there was a problem then, even if you won't admit it now?

You sit there and talk about disproportionate numbers when it comes to arrests and convictions, so let me give you another disproportionate number. The national high school graduation rate for black males is 47% compared to nearly 75% for white males. Why aren't they graduating? Are the schools racist too forcing them to drop out? What do you think happens to them? It's the same thing happens to the white male drop outs - a majority of them end up in the prison system. No, Packs, we don't deny that racism exists. All we're saying is that they are a product of their own decisions (everybody is for that matter). Nobody is making them drop out. Their dropout rate has nothing to do with racism, but their dropout rate has a lot to do with why the arrest and conviction rates are disproportionate.

You're entitled to your opinion, just as we are. Here's the difference. Your opinion is based on your feelings. Our opinion is based on facts.

[packs]

Paint with a broader brush why don't you? I've been discussing police and their attitudes towards minorities because that is precisely what Kaepernick is protesting. What you're talking about is plain old geriatric racism and I would prefer not to hear anymore of it so I'll simply ignore you now.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Paint with a broader brush why don't you? I've been discussing police and their attitudes towards minorities because that is precisely what Kaepernick is protesting. What you're talking about is plain old geriatric racism and I would prefer not to hear anymore of it so I'll simply ignore you now.

If it were one police department or several police departments in different areas, you might have a valid point. But that's not the case. The disproportionate arrests and convictions you speak of happen in every city, in every county, in every state across this nation. Are all police departments across the nation wrongfully targeting black people, that the numbers are disproportionate to white people? Or maybe is it because black people are committing a disproportionate number of the crimes and that's why they're arrested and convicted? Maybe it's not a police problem, maybe it's a behavioural problem???

And the question I asked was valid. Why is the dropout rate nearly double for black males than it is for white males? It's very relevant to the topic of discussion. My contention is that the dropout rate directly relates to the poverty rate, which directly relates to the crime rate (those arrests and convictions you speak of). Why are they dropping out? Is someone making them? Do the educators have an attitude towards minorities like you say the police do? Again, it's a fair question.

[EvilKing00]

Is affermative action rasism? Is it fair that a company has to hire a minority over a white person even if the white person is better qualified?

2 people vying for same job both lets say are in the low income bracket and lets say the white guy has more qualifications for that job dosnt get it cause of his skin color. Sounds rasist, no?

Agian, from my piont of view i hire who can make me money, but i just always thought that affirmative action wasnt right and never made sense.

[steve B]

Yes, there are still problems.

The civil rights movement in the 60's was right to try to correct what they could. And there are some things today that need fixing.

But....I find it also racist to say as many liberals do something along the lines of " These poor people can't fend for themselves in any way unless we give them our help."

Guess what? Nearly every group in this country has been oppressed and fairly seriously at different times. Nearly all of them eventually prospered by becoming part of the system and embracing stuff like laws and education.

Have I had advantages because of who I am? Probably, but it's hard to separate the ones from being from a really solid family and ones I might have had naturally. I know a few people who have started with more and done worse, and some who have started with less and done better. I do know that pretty much all my failings have been because of me.

Kapernick was as far as I can find an excellent student, and gifted athlete. Both of which got him advantages and opportunities that wouldn't have been open to me. (Passable student and moderately athletic)

Steve B