1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

Hi Again,

I have another group of these from another consignor, the backs are very white. From my understanding you believe the white backs to be a reprint. Is there a possibility that another company could have issued these? similar to T206s, T205s, M101-4?

Lee

From Ted's answer above, he says that the Sport Star Subjects have a white back, so it sounds like the ones you have are probably Sport Star Subjects and mine is something else. I'm just wondering where mine originated from? Since mine shows more of the actual image than the Sport Star or the Bond Bread, mine had to have been made from the original plate, right? Mine also shares a characteristic as some of the Bond Bread in that it isn't cut correctly. On mine, you can see some of the next card on the sheet on right and bottom border. Many of the Bond Bread are this way too. Even though mine isn't a Sport Star, I'm convinced that it was made during the same time, possible by another company as Lee suggests.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

As I've said in my 1st post in this thread, I collected the original Bond Bread cards in the Summer of 1947. Here are some of my original cards......




I have an excellent memory of these cards (as they were the first BB cards I collected as an 8-year old kid). Plus, I'm fortunate to have
all my original cards from my youth.

These Bond Bread (Rounded corners) cards were available from Bond Bread packages to us kids in my neighborhood in 1947 and 1948.

My research indicates that circa 1949 the Square versions of these B/W cards were available. These Square cards were never available
in our neighborhood. Rounded or Square, these 48-card issues were printed on good quality cardboard which has remained WHITE for
almost 70 years.


Circa 1980, David Festberg (hobby dealer) discovered in a North Jersey warehouse a box (or boxes) containing 1000's of B/W (Square
cornered) cards similar to the above cards. However,

1....there were only 24 (of the 48) subjects in this find.

2....these 24 cards were printed on an inferior cardboard stock, as these cards are thinner than the 1947 and 1949 issues.
And, the backs of the cards are "TONED", instead of WHITE.

Furthermore, when you compare the original cards (1947 & 1949) with the cards from Festberg's find, it's quite obvious that the original
cards have a noticeable B/W contrast. Where the Festberg cards' images are somewhat "faded"....indicative of reprints.

Long-time collectors/dealers have arrived at these same observations as I have stated here.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

David,

Your Musial looks very similar to one that belongs to a friend of mine.
img750.jpg
img749.jpg
His mother purchased them for him through an ad in the NY Times back in
the late 80's or early 90's. There are 24 of them and I believe they
are the ones Ted is referring to that came from the "Festberg" find.

His Musial even has similar looking "Scuff" marks on the front as yours.
my-musial-front.jpg

[vintagetoppsguy]

Thanks, Ted and Pat. I have no doubt mine is from Festberg discovery, however I do question as to when they were printed. I also contend that they were printed from the original plate. Notice the image on mine and the one Pat showed. You see more of the picture than you do on the Bond Bread or the Sport Star. See the right border, Musial's left foot? You see more of the white sock than you do on the Bond Bread or the Sport Star. Also notice that the bottom border of mine extends further than both of the others. Usually reprints are cropped tighter than the cards they were printed from. Mine is just the opposite. So, I ask this question. Why couldn't mine (the Festberg discovery) have been printed close to the same time that the Bond Bread and Sport Stars were? Maybe they were printed for some purpose and just never got distributed for whatever reason.

[tedzan]

David......I don't know if you have gone thru this lengthy thread and read the interesting posts in it.

Anyhow, I'm reprising Post #49 here since it pertains to our current discussion......

Originally Posted by iggyman

Before I begin, let me state that this is an old thread (from early 2009........I can still remember that year as though it was yesterday....).


This is for prosperity and for Ted Z.... The following eBay item just ended:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230415942970

It was for the complete 24 card '47 Bond Bread imposter cards/set (22 baseball + Joe Louis & Primo Carnera) which were unearthed by Dave Festberg. The seller stated he purchased the set in 1990 from B&J as noted in the SCD article. The card backs were the beige variety not the white version.

I passed on bidding on this item but was surprised to see it only sold for $102 (Nr/Mt set). I have always greatly appreciated everything I have learned (and continue learning) about this set from Ted Z., but at the end of his dissertations it always makes my head hurt. Plus, there is always the possibility that it is in fact a reprinted set. Guess, others feel the same way.

Lovely Day...

Furthermore, your question as to when these cards (that I have referred to as the "reprinted 24") were printed. I'll respond with these three points.............

1.....If (as you say) these reprints' images appear to be larger than the original 1947 & 1949 cards' images, frankly, I don't see more than a 1/64 of an inch
increase, if at all.

2.....And, any negligible increase could be explained by the fact that these same images were most likely reprinted from the (late 1940's) Exhibit size cards
of this series.
So, perhaps the "reprinted 24" cards (Festberg find) were printed from the Exhibits.

3.....I got back into this hobby in the 1970's. And during the 1970's, I was searching for 1947 Bond Bread cards to upgrade my original set of the 44 BB and
the 4 Boxers.
I never saw any of these "reprinted 24" cards until Festberg revealed his find in the early 1980's.

Therefore, my guess is that these reprints were printed in circa 1980-1981.


TED Z
.

[mfil5]

Hello everyone, my uncle bought a set of these circa 1988 and we've been wondering for quite some time if these were the actual '47 card set. Alas we now realize that these are most likely not. My question is, are they worth anything and if so, what? Also did anyone else buy from the same people? I've attatched pics of the letter that came with the cards and of the cards themselves. Any info would be much appreciated.

[mfil5]

EDIT: it seems I can only post pictures one at a time.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by mfil5

Hello everyone, my uncle bought a set of these circa 1988 and we've been wondering for quite some time if these were the actual '47 card set. Alas we now realize that these are most likely not. My question is, are they worth anything and if so, what? Also did anyone else buy from the same people? I've attatched pics of the letter that came with the cards and of the cards themselves. Any info would be much appreciated.

mfil5

Your cards on display in Posts #141, 142 & 143 exactly coincide with my list of the 24 cards in the 1980's find by David Festberg.
Furthermore the backs of these cards appear to be "toned" (instead of bright white). Therefore, I would conclude that these cards
are not from the original 1949 issued set.

What are they worth ? If they get graded and the flip identifies them wrongly as "1947 Bond Bread"......it's anyone's guess ? ?


Here is the list of the 24 cards in the Festberg find......

Ewell Blackwell
Lou Boudreau
Harry Brecheen
Primo Carnera
Bobby Doerr
Bob Elliott
Del Ennis
Bob Feller
Joe Gordon
Tommy Holmes
Ken Keltner
Ralph Kiner
Joe Louis
Johnny Mize
Stan Musial
Andy Pafko
Johnny Pesky
Phil Rizzuto
Jackie Robinson
Aaron Robinson
Johnny Sain
Enos Slaughter
Vern Stephens
Ted Williams


TED Z
.