T206 Who should be a HOFer that isn't ???

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

In all honesty, what got Marquard in the Hall was his stretch from 1911-1913. He went 73-28, end of story. I agree about Dahlen, but I fear that ship has long sailed......

Not to worry. He'll have fewer chances now, but if we, as a movement cam get strong backing, he can get it. He's better many players already in and is better than tons of shortstops in.

[CMIZ5290]

I think Ed Reulbach is a valid candidate.....

[Topps206]

He's not bad, I guess. Though I'm not crazy about him.

[RaidonCollects]

I agree that Ed Reulbach was a great player, but I don't think he's HOF worthy. He only posted one 20 win season plus here is his HOF stats:

Black Ink Pitching - 13 (175), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink Pitching - 123 (152), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor Pitching - 101 (97), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Pitching - 44 (54), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS Starting Pitcher (202nd), 36.6 career WAR/32.3 7yr-peak WAR/34.5 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 62) = 73.9 career WAR/50.3 7yr-peak WAR/62.1 JAWS

-Owen

[Topps206]

Another interesting device is the Keltner List, too.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by RaidonCollects

I agree that Ed Reulbach was a great player, but I don't think he's HOF worthy. He only posted one 20 win season plus here is his HOF stats:

Black Ink Pitching - 13 (175), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink Pitching - 123 (152), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor Pitching - 101 (97), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Pitching - 44 (54), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS Starting Pitcher (202nd), 36.6 career WAR/32.3 7yr-peak WAR/34.5 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 62) = 73.9 career WAR/50.3 7yr-peak WAR/62.1 JAWS

-Owen

I agree,career 27.1 fWAR, walked nearly as many as he struck out. Not a HOF'er

Sherry Magee falls a little short too IMO, 63.7 WAR is good, but among OF'ers it's only 40th all time, his wRC+ is also only tied for 64th among OF'ers all time.

During his career (1904-1919) he was only the 13th best OF hitter, and was 3rd in fWAR.

[CMIZ5290]

Ed Reulbach was 182-106 with a lifetime E.R.A. of 2.24, and these are not HOF numbers? Wow, tough crowd.... He won almost twice as many games as he lost...

[DerekMichael]

I like George Mullin

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Ed Reulbach was 182-106 with a lifetime E.R.A. of 2.24, and these are not HOF numbers? Wow, tough crowd.... He won almost twice as many games as he lost...

wins are a pretty worthless stat for judging individual production and yes his ERA is low, but his FIP is near 3 and for his era, it's good but not HOF worthy.

This is one of the examples of how old time "baseball card" stats really don't tell us how good a player is . His number look average once you get below the surface. 27.3 WAR over 15 years isn't much more than that, even if you say it was 50% low against him that would only make him a 40 WAR player, and over that career, once again, pretty avg.


ETA: during his career (1905-1917) Reulbach was 16th among starters in WAR, 27th in ERA and way down in the 150's in FIP. (we are talking an era, where the highest ERA among qualified starters (from 05-17) was 4.02!!!)

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Ed Reulbach was 182-106 with a lifetime E.R.A. of 2.24, and these are not HOF numbers? Wow, tough crowd.... He won almost twice as many games as he lost...

Not a big Cubs supporter as I'm a Sox fan but Reulbach would get my vote.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

I agree,career 27.1 fWAR, walked nearly as many as he struck out. Not a HOF'er

Sherry Magee falls a little short too IMO, 63.7 WAR is good, but among OF'ers it's only 40th all time, his wRC+ is also only tied for 64th among OF'ers all time.

During his career (1904-1919) he was only the 13th best OF hitter, and was 3rd in fWAR.

Not the best argument against Magee in my opinion. He's 40th all time in WAR four outfielders, yet there are more than 40 enshrined in the Hall.

Black ink - 35
Average Hall of Famer - 27

Gray ink - 210
Average Hall of Famer - 144

Only player to lead his league in RBIs four times and isn't in the Hall. This was in the Deadball Era.

He often gets compared to Wheat. While I think Wheat was the better player, that's no excuse to snub Magee.

[milkit1]

Johnny Kling, His contribution to the first post world series dynasty cant be overstated. He was considered the best catcher of his era and when he skipped 1909 to play billiards that was the only year between 1906-1910 that the Cubs didnt go to the world series

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Topps206

Not the best argument against Magee in my opinion. He's 40th all time in WAR four outfielders, yet there are more than 40 enshrined in the Hall.

Black ink - 35
Average Hall of Famer - 27

Gray ink - 210
Average Hall of Famer - 144

Only player to lead his league in RBIs four times and isn't in the Hall. This was in the Deadball Era.

He often gets compared to Wheat. While I think Wheat was the better player, that's no excuse to snub Magee.

RBI's is a terrible way to judge individual production as it is contingent on the actions of his teammates to get on base.

IMO, there are people with less production in, but they shouldn't have been inducted either (Jim Rice, Goose Goslin, Monte irvin)

But, I am a small hall person, others want more in, I can see the argument (and Magee is as worthy as Jim Rice IMO)