1952 Topps

[Leon]

As someone who has only scoured for high numbers for a very short while it seems they are more scarce even if they aren't. Searches on the bay will prove it out....not totally accurate but it should be some reflection. I believe I have around 15 high numbers that should be delivered today or tomorrow. And whomever has them isn't giving them away either!!

edited to add, I always give serious consideration to what Toppcat says concerning Topps.

Originally Posted by toppcat

I've been on record regarding the highs and don't buy the garbage scow story for a second. If the cards were, in fact, destroyed, they most likely were tossed in the furnace at Bush Terminal as Topps would not have spent the money if they could have just lit them up. I realize they had access to a dock at the facility but Bush Terminal had its own trash and garbage disposal facility as it was essentially a self-contained industrial facility (originally a self contained military facility).

My belief is they printed the highs in the same or slightly lesser quantities as the semi-highs and then slowly sold off excess product and returns in other countries before the remainder went off to Card Collectors Company in the mid to late 50's. CCC in their March 1968 catalog still had complete high number runs for $90 and sold singles for a buck when first series cards went for 20 cents and semi highs for .15. Regular cards were 12 cents otherwise. Personally, I'd say Topps was on a commission basis with CCC and it was in their interest to keep the high number market inflated. Just a theory but I don't believe the garbage scow story and Sy Berger told a lot of whoppers about Topps over the years.

It's interesting to me that the highs on the PSA pop report only seem to be about 25% scarcer than the semi-highs. I doubt the ratio is that exact but the semi's and the highs are not all that far apart in terms of availability. Let's face it, the highs are not that scarce.

[Republicaninmass]

It's interesting to me that the highs on the PSA pop report only seem to be about 25% scarcer than the semi-highs. I doubt the ratio is that exact but the semi's and the highs are not all that far apart in terms of availability. Let's face it, the highs are not that scarce.


Said nobody....ever

Maybe the reports are skewed as even a high number in psa 1 is worth quite a bit more than the grading fee? Except for the SP's in the high #200s, the highs, and a few in particular, are very tough. Try going to a show and finding any, and ask the dealers how quickly they sell.

[SMPEP]

I'm not buying a 25% difference between the 5th and 6th series either. The 5th series cards are graded when they are in great condition. The 6th series cards are graded in any condition. You want a better reflection of the differences - try looking at PSA 7 5th series versus PSA 6th series cards. I still think that would be a bit inflated (as the last cards issued in each year were less novel and I bet they got destroyed less), but it would be a better proxy.

Cheers,
Patrick

[ALR-bishop]

Back up for Dave's point about availability of high numbers at fairly low prices in later 60s

[Republicaninmass]

Thanks Al, only 10x a low number

[GasHouseGang]

Wow, so in 1967 you could get the entire 1952 Topps set for $125, including high numbers. According to one of the inflation calculators on-line, that would be around $900 in todays money. I guess the cards have done better than inflation!

[toppcat]

I didn't say the ratio of semi's vs high's was exact based on PSA reports but 1952 high numbers are not scarce. They are expensive, which is a different thing and there is high demand but they are pretty easy to find and if you had the $$ you could get them all within a month I'd wager. I put together all the Dodgers high number cards (16 total IIRC) quite easily a few years back.

Kind of amazing that when Mantle was active, his 1952 card had zero premium but his more recent cards did.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Back up for Dave's point about availability of high numbers at fairly low prices in later 60s

Yea, and 5 years later when I was 15 years old, making $2.00 an hour and could afford to buy them, they were gone! Below is a page from the 1972 Wholesale Cards Co. catalogue (Bruce Yeko).

[IMG][/IMG]

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks for posting that Mike. Missed it by that much....

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by Leon

edited to add, I always give serious consideration to what Toppcat says concerning Topps.

Big +1 to that.

[ALR-bishop]

I always considered Toppcat a mere front cat. Benny was the real brains of the gang.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I always considered Toppcat a mere front cat. Benny was the real brains of the gang.

Do Toppcat's close friends get to call him T.C.?

[Harliduck]

Thought I would share my 52 Topps story on this thread...just call me Merkle


In the early 80's we had a card shop an hour or so away that had a huge vintage inventory (Mike Kramers (?) who ended up making cards himself, in Lynnwood WA), and I even met Bob Feller there (who was rude, and hit on my mom in front of me...awkward for a 12 year old!!!) Anyway, I would save up my money for the once or twice a summer visit when my parents would take me, and I would annoy the counter person with a list of vintage commons so I could simply have a card from that year. I used to buy players like Clay Carroll and Jim Kaat because they had decent long careers and I could get my different years covered. I remember I bought a 52 Topps Billy Johnson, and thought it was SO COOL to have a card from Topps first year.

Fast forward to late 80's....I met a local retired teacher who collected cards. I ironically met him at a Mariners game and he traded me some beat up 63 fleers for some new fleer cards, and considering I had never seen those before I was in awe. He lived in my hometown and invited our family over a week later to trade some cards. SUPER cool great guy...and for the next couple of years, I caught him up on the new stuff (yikes, junk), and he traded me 50's and 60's vintage, although almost his entire collection that I would see was creased, written on, ect...as he got most of his cards from his students in the 50's and 60's.

One day I brought my 52 Billy to show him as I didn't think he had any 52 cards. Well, he did...and brought out a little stack of around 30 cards and gifted them to me, said they were doubles. I can't remember what I gave him as I would never just take a gift, but I was STOKED to have that many...and all were crease free and really nice. Thinking back probably VG-EX...which were rare for him, haha. He then let me know that his private collection in back in a safe and he didn't like advertising to anyone what he had, and asked that I keep that secret...which I always have. Through the next couple of years he would slowly show me some of the stuff he had, amazing post war gems...including a 65 Namath rookie that he actually called me one day and said I could have it if I bought him a ticket to Florida for his fathers funeral...which I did (a lot of money for a 19 year old!!)


When I stopped collecting in 91 or so, I lost touch with my friend. I would see him riding his bike occasionally around town (he was kind of eccentric) and he would wave at me, but that's it. I moved into a new house in 2001, and when I dug out all my cards, I found my vintage box. Most were the beat up cards I got from him...and then I saw it...the forgotten stack of 52s! I took the cards, minus the Billy of course which I still have, and put them up on ebay as a lot. I listed the numbers and took a picture of the stack and then of a few of the better looking cards (total newbie, one of the first things I ever listed). I was hoping for like 50 bucks....WELL....call me stupid but I had NO IDEA there were high numbers and that they were of any extra value. The stack went for $150, and I was shocked! THEN...when I realized what I just sold, my stomach hurt as I mailed them out to the very lucky buyer. I remember to this day a few, I had George Crowe, Frank Crossti, and Hal Rice in that group, can't remember the numbers. There may have been a couple more high #'s, but at this point ignorance of what I totally sold is probably best. They were all commons, but wow, did I ever screw up.


Lesson very much learned! My friend is still alive, I drive by his house every once in a while. Fun to know that he probably still has a nice little cache of 52 cards with high numbers. There are times when I want to swing in, but what do you say to a 90 plus year old after all these years...want to sell me your cards?? Haha. He has one son who I know didn't care for his cards back in the day, wonder if they are still even there...

Does anyone out there have a 2002ish story of buying a stack of 52's on ebay with high numbers in them from an unknowingly idiotic seller? Well, that would be ME...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

Thought I would share my 52 Topps story on this thread...just call me Merkle


In the early 80's we had a card shop an hour or so away that had a huge vintage inventory (Mike Kramers (?) who ended up making cards himself, in Lynnwood WA), and I even met Bob Feller there (who was rude, and hit on my mom in front of me...awkward for a 12 year old!!!) Anyway, I would save up my money for the once or twice a summer visit when my parents would take me, and I would annoy the counter person with a list of vintage commons so I could simply have a card from that year. I used to buy players like Clay Carroll and Jim Kaat because they had decent long careers and I could get my different years covered. I remember I bought a 52 Topps Billy Johnson, and thought it was SO COOL to have a card from Topps first year.

Fast forward to late 80's....I met a local retired teacher who collected cards. I ironically met him at a Mariners game and he traded me some beat up 63 fleers for some new fleer cards, and considering I had never seen those before I was in awe. He lived in my hometown and invited our family over a week later to trade some cards. SUPER cool great guy...and for the next couple of years, I caught him up on the new stuff (yikes, junk), and he traded me 50's and 60's vintage, although almost his entire collection that I would see was creased, written on, ect...as he got most of his cards from his students in the 50's and 60's.

One day I brought my 52 Billy to show him as I didn't think he had any 52 cards. Well, he did...and brought out a little stack of around 30 cards and gifted them to me, said they were doubles. I can't remember what I gave him as I would never just take a gift, but I was STOKED to have that many...and all were crease free and really nice. Thinking back probably VG-EX...which were rare for him, haha. He then let me know that his private collection in back in a safe and he didn't like advertising to anyone what he had, and asked that I keep that secret...which I always have. Through the next couple of years he would slowly show me some of the stuff he had, amazing post war gems...including a 65 Namath rookie that he actually called me one day and said I could have it if I bought him a ticket to Florida for his fathers funeral...which I did (a lot of money for a 19 year old!!)


When I stopped collecting in 91 or so, I lost touch with my friend. I would see him riding his bike occasionally around town (he was kind of eccentric) and he would wave at me, but that's it. I moved into a new house in 2001, and when I dug out all my cards, I found my vintage box. Most were the beat up cards I got from him...and then I saw it...the forgotten stack of 52s! I took the cards, minus the Billy of course which I still have, and put them up on ebay as a lot. I listed the numbers and took a picture of the stack and then of a few of the better looking cards (total newbie, one of the first things I ever listed). I was hoping for like 50 bucks....WELL....call me stupid but I had NO IDEA there were high numbers and that they were of any extra value. The stack went for $150, and I was shocked! THEN...when I realized what I just sold, my stomach hurt as I mailed them out to the very lucky buyer. I remember to this day a few, I had George Crowe, Frank Crossti, and Hal Rice in that group, can't remember the numbers. There may have been a couple more high #'s, but at this point ignorance of what I totally sold is probably best. They were all commons, but wow, did I ever screw up.


Lesson very much learned! My friend is still alive, I drive by his house every once in a while. Fun to know that he probably still has a nice little cache of 52 cards with high numbers. There are times when I want to swing in, but what do you say to a 90 plus year old after all these years...want to sell me your cards?? Haha. He has one son who I know didn't care for his cards back in the day, wonder if they are still even there...

Does anyone out there have a 2002ish story of buying a stack of 52's on ebay with high numbers in them from an unknowingly idiotic seller? Well, that would be ME...

Pull into the drive way and say "hi how have you been, do you remember me". Seriously, I would but I also like talking to really old people. Tell him you are collecting low end vintage again and see what happens.

[ALR-bishop]

I bet there are a few people who wish they had not traded or sold those Canadian gray backs years ago .