Ted Williams Topps 1957 #1

[cbdavids]

Thanks. I came by the card with a little help from the Splendid Splinter's son, John Henry Williams.

You can find the story here:

https://ashevilleoralhistoryproject..../ted-williams/

[Harliduck]

Cool story, thanks for sharing...I love that card and you have a dandy

[swarmee]

Registration is slightly off T/B as well. Nice card, but the bottom edge is weird in the middle. Not sure if that equates to a 7, and not sure why you would require a 7. Even a 6 or 6.5 would have value over the grading fees.

[JollyElm]

Grading aside, just take a trip down that "AVG." column. Look at those frickin' numbers. Oh em gee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the 'stache]

Plus juan. I still geek out when I look at Ted's numbers.

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Grading aside, just take a trip down that "AVG." column. Look at those frickin' numbers. Oh em gee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Grading aside, just take a trip down that "AVG." column. Look at those frickin' numbers. Oh em gee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No doubt....I love flipping over my Ted cards and seeing those stats...the fact he hit over .400 three times! I don't care the others don't count, still cool. Much like big Papi, he went out in style too...how do you retire after hitting 29 bombs, batting .316, and having an OPS of 1.096 in your final year? He played in 113 games, not bad for an old man! I still can't believe he retired with a lifetime .482 OBP...I am pretty sure that is a record. I always geek out wondering what his stats would look like with 4-6 more productive years in his prime that he missed due to the military. Would any lifetime records have been safe?


Again...great card. When I was a kid we had an older gentleman who was a retired teacher living in my town that had a massive vintage collection. His cards were really beat up, written on, ect....but to a 12 year old kid seeing a stack of 63 Topps was unfathomable. He kept a secret stash of cards in his bedroom in a safe, and every once in a while he would bring out a card or two to show us. His pride and joy was a NM 1957 Topps Ted Williams that looked as perfect as a card could be to a 12 year old. I swore it glowed. The perfect year, card, pose for such an iconic ballplayer. This card has always been super special to me and the day I got my own card (not as nice as yours or my childhood card) was a great day...

[the 'stache]

John, the one stat that jumps out to me most of all is his OBP. That .482 lifetime mark is, indeed, a Major League record, and by a pretty comfortable margin. Ruth is second all-time at .474. John McGraw and Billy Hamilton, two dead ball era guys are next, and then Gehrig is fifth at .447. If you think about that, it really paints Williams in a remarkable light. Ruth transformed the game, and as such, it's understandable the fear factor was omnipresent. I'd imagine that a lot of pitchers tried to throw around Ruth. He didn't have Gehrig until 1926 (I mean, the "Gehrig" that would become feared). By the time Teddy Ballgame came around in 1939, the game had adjusted. There were several guys hitting 40 + home runs a season. Yet Williams, for his massive power, had an eye, and plate discipline, that was second to none. He walked 2,021 times, and struck out only 709 times. No other player that I'm aware of, especially a hitter with the monstrous power these guys had, comes close to a 3:1 lifetime walk to strikeout ratio. Gehrig is closest off the top of my head, at about 2:1. The Babe walked 2,062 times, but whiffed over 1,300 times. Barry Bonds, before age 35, had 1,430 walks and 1,112 Ks. After 1999, Bonds had a 2.6:1 walk to K ratio (1,128 walks to 438 Ks). As great as that was, it still doesn't come close to Williams career mark.

It's fun to think about what his lifetime stats would have been had he not missed those five seasons. And, if he hadn't sat out the first month plus of 1955, a season he had a 1.200 OPS + at age 34 (28 home runs in 320 at bats. Are you kidding me??) Look what he did when he was 38. .388 AVG, 38 HR, .526 OBP, .731 SLG, 1.257 OPS.

Look at the two seasons before, and after, his three years out of the game because of his military commitment.

Baseball Reference
1941 10.6 WAR
1942 10.6 WAR
1946 10.9 WAR
1947 9.9 WAR

42 WAR

Fangraphs

1941 11.0 WAR
1942 11.6 WAR
1946 11.8 WAR
1947 10.5 WAR

44.9 WAR

Take his lowest of those seasons, multiply by three. He'd have had another 30.0 WAR, bare minimum. Baseball Reference has him at a 123.0 career WAR; Fangraphs 130.4. His career WAR is on par with Ruth's with those three seasons added back in.

Ruth fWAR 168.4
Williams fWAR 130.4 + 30=160.4

That's not even considering '52 and '53, when he only played 43 games due to Korea. Figure he gets another 12-15 WAR there, if not more (that's being conservative).

And the counting stats? He's well over 3,000 hits. Well over 600 home runs. Well over 2,000 RBI. I think he's at 3,400 + hits, 650-700 home runs, and 2,300 + RBIs. And his walk count? 2,600 to 2,700. He's #1 all time there.

He was a .359 hitter between 1940 and 1948. If he has those three full seasons, his career average is likely higher, closer to .350 lifetime. Maybe he doesn't play those last two years, where he hit .254 and .316. '59 and '60 dropped him from .349 to .344 lifetime. Drop those seasons, add back three in his prime, and the majority of play time in the two seasons I mentioned, and he's pushing .353 or so, lifetime.

It all makes my head spin.

Originally Posted by Harliduck

No doubt....I love flipping over my Ted cards and seeing those stats...the fact he hit over .400 three times! I don't care the others don't count, still cool. Much like big Papi, he went out in style too...how do you retire after hitting 29 bombs, batting .316, and having an OPS of 1.096 in your final year? He played in 113 games, not bad for an old man! I still can't believe he retired with a lifetime .482 OBP...I am pretty sure that is a record. I always geek out wondering what his stats would look like with 4-6 more productive years in his prime that he missed due to the military. Would any lifetime records have been safe?


Again...great card. When I was a kid we had an older gentleman who was a retired teacher living in my town that had a massive vintage collection. His cards were really beat up, written on, ect....but to a 12 year old kid seeing a stack of 63 Topps was unfathomable. He kept a secret stash of cards in his bedroom in a safe, and every once in a while he would bring out a card or two to show us. His pride and joy was a NM 1957 Topps Ted Williams that looked as perfect as a card could be to a 12 year old. I swore it glowed. The perfect year, card, pose for such an iconic ballplayer. This card has always been super special to me and the day I got my own card (not as nice as yours or my childhood card) was a great day...

[DBesse27]

I doubt they deduct for that factory rough cut.

[egri]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

John, the one stat that jumps out to me most of all is his OBP.[...]It all makes my head spin.

I saw somewhere that he was projected to hit 701 home runs with those years added back in. If he was that close in 1960, I'm sure he comes back in 1961 (maybe even 1962 as well) to beat expansion pitching like a rented mule.

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

No doubt....I love flipping over my Ted cards and seeing those stats...the fact he hit over .400 three times! I don't care the others don't count, still cool. Much like big Papi, he went out in style too...how do you retire after hitting 29 bombs, batting .316, and having an OPS of 1.096 in your final year? He played in 113 games, not bad for an old man! I still can't believe he retired with a lifetime .482 OBP...I am pretty sure that is a record. I always geek out wondering what his stats would look like with 4-6 more productive years in his prime that he missed due to the military. Would any lifetime records have been safe?


Again...great card. When I was a kid we had an older gentleman who was a retired teacher living in my town that had a massive vintage collection. His cards were really beat up, written on, ect....but to a 12 year old kid seeing a stack of 63 Topps was unfathomable. He kept a secret stash of cards in his bedroom in a safe, and every once in a while he would bring out a card or two to show us. His pride and joy was a NM 1957 Topps Ted Williams that looked as perfect as a card could be to a 12 year old. I swore it glowed. The perfect year, card, pose for such an iconic ballplayer. This card has always been super special to me and the day I got my own card (not as nice as yours or my childhood card) was a great day...

methinks HORNSBY hit over .400 THREE TIMES, but aside from that, Teddy Ballgame was freakin' amazing AND I love his cards.

DS