Is "market pushing" ethical or not?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by botn

Exactly Gary, I apologized because I recognized that what was done was wrong. And who do you think you are? I will do not such thing and will continue to participate in this conversation. I could not care less what you think of my opinion.

Greg, I am someone who has never shilled. You did not apologize until after you were outed when the Mastro list was published.

[botn]

Originally Posted by glchen

Greg, I am someone who has never shilled. You did not apologize until after you were outed when the Mastro list was published.

First I should recuse myself from this discussion because my name was on the list and now you are admonishing me for not apologizing sooner? Are you for real, Gary? Find another cause Gary.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by botn

First I should recuse myself from this discussion because my name was on the list and now you are admonishing me for not apologizing sooner? Are you for real, Gary? Find another cause Gary.

Greg, you were caught shilling at Mastro. Now you are arguing that what folks are doing in market pushing is much worse ("pales" is your word) than what folks did at Mastro, which coincidentally you were one of them. If that's not something where in a legal setting, someone would recuse themselves from, I don't know what is. Obviously we're not in a court of law, so you're free to continue to say whatever you want, no matter how bad it makes you look.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I took Greg's point to be about the extent and/or impact of the conduct, not the relative culpability.

[botn]

Originally Posted by glchen

Greg, you were caught shilling at Mastro. Now you are arguing that what folks are doing in market pushing is much worse ("pales" is your word) than what folks did at Mastro, which coincidentally you were one of them. If that's not something where in a legal setting, someone would recuse themselves from, I don't know what is. Obviously we're not in a court of law, so you're free to continue to say whatever you want, no matter how bad it makes you look.

Was never caught shilling. Never questioned by the Feds. It is not coincidental that I am posting on this topic. In what world would the fact that we bought stuff back mean I should recuse myself from a discussion which I have first hand perspective of? That is ludicrous.

The artificial bidding that took place at Mastro did not have much of an impact on market values overall where as the pushing that is going on has had a very material impact on all grades. Just look at VCP.

[Exhibitman]

Like I said, legal or illegal. The rest is conversation.

It was illegal for Mastro and his collaborators and the consignors who asked their friends to run up bids to do what they did. Apparently it is not illegal in Texas for Heritage consignors to bid on their own stuff. You do business in a jurisdiction you take the good and the bad laws. If you don't like IL rules (or eBay rules based in CA law) because you want to bid on your own items sell your stuff in TX, but don't cheat in IL and try to argue it is ok because someone else did something similar where it is legal. That's like saying you can have two wives in USA because it is ok in Saudi Arabia.

Ok bad example because you'd clearly be mentally ill if you wanted another wife in this country...

[1952boyntoncollector]

I can see even if 'eating' 10% on the Rose RC...as long as you are pushing the market over 20% etc...you can keep eating 10%...heck the market has gone up 70% ...i think people will continue to eat away the juice with those numbers.....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I can see even if 'eating' 10% on the Rose RC...as long as you are pushing the market over 20% etc...you can keep eating 10%...heck the market has gone up 70% ...i think people will continue to eat away the juice with those numbers.....

ya...i wouldnt be surprised if those buying up the 8's and 9's actiually own 9's and 10's...that way after driving up the prices they then can sell their's at a huge increase...making up most of the $$$ it cost to buy the others.