Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[steve B]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I guess that I am accustomed to receiving checks more frequently than cards in plain white envelopes, but often the checks are for funds in excess of $800.
I do not recall ever receiving a check in a top loader between two pieces of cardboard.

I also don't recall ever ripping a check while opening an envelope that contained a check. In fact I received two such checks today from board members, who will be relieved to know that both envelopes were successfully opened despite the abysmal packaging of the checks in plain white envelopes.

Absolving Pete of any responsibility in this instance is like blaming the baby on the sperm rather than the delivery vehicle. Now if the sperm was in a top loader between two pieces of cardboard, that would be a different story, I think.

Well! that makes sense.

Thanks Frank.

Maybe it's a matter of expectation?

Most of the stuff I've bought on Ebay has been packed at least fairly well. The ones that come in plain envelopes are usually stamps instead of cards. (can't recall getting a card in a plain envelope, but it must have happened sometime over the last .....darn, almost 20 years. My Ebay account is around 18 years old. I wonder if it can vote....
Anyway, the stamps are usually obvious. Since most of what's been printed since the 30's is essentially junk, and is usually available for less than face value, lots of dealers and collectors use it on their mail. The envelope with my new stamps is usually the one with 5 or more oldish stamps on it. I'm always careful with those (I'm generally careful with all the mail, but more careful with those. Once I have a boxful, they're even saleable)

The funniest ebay mail I ever had was when someone asked where his stuff was and I told him the check hadn't arrived. So he sent a second one. In the pre barcoded window envelope that came with his electric bill. When I explained that the barcode was read by the mail handling machines to send the mail where it needed to go, he said he'd just learned that from his electric company that had called to ask why he'd sent them a check made out to someone else and included an Ebay printout.

Steve B

[sportscardpete]

Just as a heads up - EBAY refused to refund. In a way I'm not really surprised; explaining it to people that don't collect cards is kind of hard. For most of you, you can get how a poorly packaged card is a cardinal sin, but ebay can't really see it that way.

Lesson learned is this: 1) PARTICULARLY for raw cards, assume it isn't packaged correctly and handle with care, and more importantly 2) life is more important than worrying about a ripped card (but boy does it suck).

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and for helping me feel a lot less dumb! I've had the worst pit in my stomach this whole weekend but I am glad most of you made me feel like I wasn't entirely crazy!

Pete

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Just as a heads up - EBAY refused to refund. In a way I'm not really surprised; explaining it to people that don't collect cards is kind of hard. For most of you, you can get how a poorly packaged card is a cardinal sin, but ebay can't really see it that way.

Lesson learned is this: 1) PARTICULARLY for raw cards, assume it isn't packaged correctly and handle with care, and more importantly 2) life is more important than worrying about a ripped card (but boy does it suck).

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and for helping me feel a lot less dumb! I've had the worst pit in my stomach this whole weekend but I am glad most of you made me feel like I wasn't entirely crazy!

Pete

Did you pay for it with a CC? File a dispute with your CC company.

Can you at least out the seller so we can block them?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Did you pay for it with a CC? File a dispute with your CC company.

Sure, now pass responsibility on to the CC company and get THEM to eat the loss.

Is the concept of personal responsibility completely dead?

Look, I once spilled a beverage on a fairly valuable card myself and I know how depressing it is. But looking high and low for someone else to blame isn't the right thing to do. The right thing is to learn from the mistake, of course, and be thankful for all your blessings. If you can afford an $800 bit of cardboard, your life is likely far better than that of most around the world.

My mom used to tell me, whenever I'd lose or break something, that I should think of the people who get hit by tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and so on, who literally lose their entire homes and everything within them. Really puts things in perspective. For that matter, I have a picture of a childhood friend on my computer monitor here... he died when he was just 16 years old. Looking at it lets me remember and honor him, and also reminds me to be thankful for what I have, and worry less about what I don't have, or have lost/broken/ripped.

Just sayin... man up, admit you ripped it, it's a bummer, and move on. Don't excuse your own carelessness by passing responsibility off to someone else (like a CC company,) thus making a victim out of them.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Sure, now pass responsibility on to the CC company and get THEM to eat the loss.

Is the concept of personal responsibility completely dead?

Look, I once spilled a beverage on a fairly valuable card myself and I know how depressing it is. But looking high and low for someone else to blame isn't the right thing to do. The right thing is to learn from the mistake, of course, and be thankful for all your blessings. If you can afford an $800 bit of cardboard, your life is likely far better than that of most around the world.

My mom used to tell me, whenever I'd lose or break something, that I should think of the people who get hit by tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and so on, who literally lose their entire homes and everything within them. Really puts things in perspective. For that matter, I have a picture of a childhood friend on my computer monitor here... he died when he was just 16 years old. Looking at it lets me remember and honor him, and also reminds me to be thankful for what I have, and worry less about what I don't have, or have lost/broken/ripped.

Just sayin... man up, admit you ripped it, it's a bummer, and move on. Don't excuse your own carelessness by passing responsibility off to someone else (like a CC company,) thus making a victim out of them.

Extremely well written response Mark.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Sure, now pass responsibility on to the CC company and get THEM to eat the loss.

Is the concept of personal responsibility completely dead?

It's not passing the responsibility to the CC company. The CC company would get their money back from PayPal and PayPal would probably get their money back from the seller.

If you can't admit the seller was at fault, then I guess personal responsibility is dead.

[packs]

What would be the grounds for a PayPal refund?

Examples of transactions covered by Purchase Protection:

• You bought a book, but received a DVD
•You bought an item described as “new,” but received something that was used
•You purchased 3 items, but only received 2
•The item was damaged during shipping
•The item is missing major parts (that the seller didn’t report)
•You purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff instead

That's from the PayPal site.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by packs

What would be the grounds for a PayPal refund?

Examples of transactions covered by Purchase Protection:

• You bought a book, but received a DVD
•You bought an item described as “new,” but received something that was used
•You purchased 3 items, but only received 2
•The item was damaged during shipping
•The item is missing major parts (that the seller didn’t report)
•You purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff instead

That's from the PayPal site.

Damaged during shipping, and damaged because of poor packing, or a lack of packing is a fine line. I would file a PayPal claim and let them sort it out.

I get that the OP should have been more careful opening the package. How exactly this happened is a little confusing. A picture of the card and envelope it was shipped in sure would help. But if a card of this value was simply placed loose in an envelope I feel that is so egregious as to warrant a refund.

Edit: Frank's suggestion of sharing the responsibility and perhaps issuing a 50% refund is probably the reasonable solution, but this seems like a case that would have to be decided by a third party and a ruling made one way or the other. Contacting the seller and offering a split may be a solution, although the time to offer that most likely would have been before filing the ebay claim.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's not passing the responsibility to the CC company. The CC company would get their money back from PayPal and PayPal would probably get their money back from the seller.

If you can't admit the seller was at fault, then I guess personal responsibility is dead.

Personal responsibility dead? You posts have avoided all personal responsibility of the person who actually TORE it.

Maybe it's the envelope mfg fault or maybe the people that sold the car to the seller to drive the package to the post office. As you know, without that car it wouldn't have been shipped.

Wake up. I feel badly for the guy. Terrible situation. But he can't ever get past the fact that he tore it.

I also agree that the seller underperformed by shoddy shipping. But as I said earlier, neither are 100% harmless or 100% at fault. But I can assure you that the cc company, eBay, PayPal or the delivery service are not at fault. They all did their jobs. This failure to accept responsibility is the crap that logjams courts, creates entitled people and causes exorbitant fees. Quit passing the buck.

Mark Medlin

[MuddyMules]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Personal responsibility dead? You posts have avoided all personal responsibility of the person who actually TORE it.

Maybe it's the envelope mfg fault or maybe the people that sold the car to the seller to drive the package to the post office. As you know, without that car it wouldn't have been shipped.

Wake up. I feel badly for the guy. Terrible situation. But he can't ever get past the fact that he tore it.

I also agree that the seller underperformed by shoddy shipping. But as I said earlier, neither are 100% harmless or 100% at fault. But I can assure you that the cc company, eBay, PayPal or the delivery service are not at fault. They all did their jobs. This failure to accept responsibility is the crap that logjams courts, creates entitled people and causes exorbitant fees. Quit passing the buck.

Mark Medlin

+1 very well said.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's not passing the responsibility to the CC company. The CC company would get their money back from PayPal and PayPal would probably get their money back from the seller.

If you can't admit the seller was at fault, then I guess personal responsibility is dead.

Personal responsibility resides with both the seller and the buyer in any transaction.

When my daughter receives a birthday card in the mail from my parents, I tell her to open it carefully and not just rip it open as she is tempted to do because I know full well that it contains a $20 bill. Now even a bill ripped in half retains its full value, so no harm if it happens but its the idea of opening a package that contains something of value in a careful and responsible way.

Multiple times from Ebay sellers, I've received a stack of cards and each in its own supersaver sleeve but where the supersavers were bound/taped together and in between cardboard to add rigidity. I take extreme care is slicing the tape apart with a blade, knowing full well that I could easily slip the blade right through any one of those supersavers and the card inside. If was to hastily try to hack the supersavers apart and slice a card in the process, I would not blame the seller. I would accept full personal responsibility for having acted in a negligent and careless fashion.

[Jantz]

Pete

To be honest, my earlier post was not directed toward you.

I know what it feels like to get a poorly packaged card. It aggravates me as well, especially since I go overboard when packaging a card that someone has purchased from me. I've had two packages in the last 6 months either get eaten by the postal sorting machine because the seller forgot to write "non-machineable" on the envelope (paid $3 for S&H) or lost because the seller didn't include tracking and that was with a $4 S&H charge.

There is really no excuse for it. Bubble wrap envelope with tracking = $2.64

I'm always amazed (though I shouldn't be) at the lengths some sellers will go to just to save a dollar on shipping. Once the cash is in hand, they quickly forget that its someone else's property that they are mailing out.

It seems to be common practice these days though.

Jantz