Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[packs]

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card wasn't packaged properly. The card is ripped because you ripped it.

I lean towards Packs on this one. I do not think a seller should be held responsible for negligence on the part of the buyer once the item arrives into the buyers possession.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

He ripped it BECAUSE of the way it was packaged. $800 card. Surprised there is even a conversation about this.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

If the card was in a bubble mailer and packaged as the OP described, how is he supposed to know which end to rip from? A loose card like that is going to float around/shift inside the bubble mailer. Whenever I get a card in the mail, I always feel where the card is at inside the bubble mailer (its obviously easier on graded cards because if the thickness). Once I find the card inside the bubble mailer, I open from the opposite end as to not do any damage to the card. If the card was packaged as the OP described, how was he supposed to know where to open from - he probably couldn't have felt the card inside the bubble mailer? If he was expecting a card with no protection, I'm sure he would have been more careful. But when he spends $800 on a card, he was probably expecting some kind of protection and ripping the card was the last thing on his mind.

[jhs5120]

I'm sorry, this is the absolute worst feeling.

Talk to the seller, see if you can get a partial refund.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Talk to the seller, demand a full refund.

I fixed it for you.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I fixed it for you.

I think it is equal parts on the buyer and seller. I have received cards in the mail with just a stamp and envelope and have managed to open without damaging the card. I have also managed to open bubble mailers with just a loose card inside without damaging anything.

It was irresponsible on the seller for shipping it poorly, but the same result could have easily happened if the seller packaged the card in a 4 inch thick slab of cardboard wrapped a million times in packing tape. I think you always need to exercise caution when opening a package - especially if you can tell the item was packaged poorly.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think you always need to exercise caution when opening a package - especially if you can tell the item was packaged poorly.

True, but you really can't tell it's packaged poorly until you open it, right?

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If the card was in a bubble mailer and packaged as the OP described, how is he supposed to know which end to rip from? A loose card like that is going to float around/shift inside the bubble mailer. Whenever I get a card in the mail, I always feel where the card is at inside the bubble mailer (its obviously easier on graded cards because if the thickness). Once I find the card inside the bubble mailer, I open from the opposite end as to not do any damage to the card. If the card was packaged as the OP described, how was he supposed to know where to open from - he probably couldn't have felt the card inside the bubble mailer? If he was expecting a card with no protection, I'm sure he would have been more careful. But when he spends $800 on a card, he was probably expecting some kind of protection and ripping the card was the last thing on his mind.

I agree with you that it should have been packed better but from what the OP said about what happened it doesn't sound like the card was damaged during shipping. It was only damaged upon the buyer trying to open the package. The seller should have done a better job packing the card out of courtesy and common sense but unless the card was damaged en route I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

[scooter729]

Ouch! And based on the only raw card to have ended in the past couple of weeks meeting the price criteria, is it appropriate to say.....

Say it Ain't So!

[Stampsfan]

$880? You sure you didn't accidently miss a decimal point in there?

I guess this is another reason to only purchase TPG graded cards...

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Ouch! And based on the only raw card to have ended in the past couple of weeks meeting the price criteria, is it appropriate to say.....

Say it Ain't So!

If it's the card I saw on ebay, and you're talking about the same one, I bought a raw card from this seller once (a '49 Bowman Ashburn) and it was in a toploader. But I guess we're just speculating here.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree with you that it should have been packed better but from what the OP said about what happened it doesn't sound like the card was damaged during shipping. It was only damaged upon the buyer trying to open the package. The seller should have done a better job packing the card out of courtesy and common sense but unless the card was damaged en route I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

You can't say the first two bold items and then state the third. The card was damaged because the seller was lazy, stupid, or both. I'm baffled that someone so blatantly stupid enough to ship a $1k card with absolutely no protection carries no fault here. The fact his item was carried and delivered by a cavalry of featherlight angels instead of the usual diamond crackers is nullified since said angels didn't hang (float, they float) outside Pete's door to warn him upon his return of the trash of a seller he was dealing with.

File a SNAD claim, get the refund, out the seller.

[packs]

Well I only say that because it doesn't sound like the way it was packed caused any damage en route. The damage was caused by the person opening the package. Seek a refund and see how you do. Those are just my opinions.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

Yes, it was damaged by the buyer, but if the seller would have done a better job of packaging, this wouldn't have happened. That's how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer. It still falls back on the seller. His lack of properly packaging the card led to the card being ripped.

Let me approach this from another angle. Let's say you purchase a frozen food product that must be refrigerated (or kept cold) and have it delivered via USPS. The seller fails to pack the product with proper packing materials that keep it cold. Is it your fault that the item arrives ruined because the seller didn't do his job? Of course not. The same thing applies here. The card was ripped because the seller didn't package it properly. Period.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, it was damaged by the buyer, but if the seller would have done a better job of packaging, this wouldn't have happened. That's how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer. It still falls back on the seller. His lack of properly packaging the card led to the card being ripped.

Let me approach this from another angle. Let's say you purchase a frozen food product that must be refrigerated (or kept cold) and have it delivered via USPS. The seller fails to pack the product with proper packing materials that keep it cold. Is it your fault that the item arrives ruined because the seller didn't do his job? Of course not. The same thing applies here. The card was ripped because the seller didn't package it properly. Period.

We can propose an example that more closely relates to the situation at hand.

My hypothetical is to say a card arrives to me, shipped in a supersaver sleeve inside a padded envelope. Sometimes those padded envelopes can be a little tough to tear or rip open especially if the seller taped the enveople closed with packing tape. So I take a pair of scissors to clip the top of the envelope off to open. In the process I cut through the supersaver and clip the card inside.

Who's fault is that? Is it the seller because he should have put the card into a more sturdy card holder or additional packaging? Or is it my fault by displaying negligence in cutting the envelope open and not taking care in opening the package that had safely arrive in my possession?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by markf31

We can propose an example that more closely relates to the situation at hand.

My hypothetical is to say a card arrives to me, shipped in a supersaver sleeve inside a padded envelope. Sometimes those padded envelopes can be a little tough to tear or rip open especially if the seller taped the enveople closed with packing tape. So I take a pair of scissors to clip the top of the envelope off to open. In the process I cut through the supersaver and clip the card inside.

Who's fault is that? Is it the seller because he should have put the card into a more sturdy card holder or additional packaging? Or is it my fault by displaying negligence in cutting the envelope open and not taking care in opening the package that had safely arrive in my possession?

I did exactly that once...it was my fault...so pissed and on a rare boxing card!

[Jewish-collector]

I don't know the seller, but what happens if they are a member of this message board ?