Liquidity & Investing vs collecting

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Anyone who is willing to put $300K into cards as an investment in their future is nuts. The only people spending $300K on cards are high rollers who don't even need to see a return. I would say the same is probably true for everyone who's purchased that Joe Jax card too. I would be very surprised to hear about anyone laying out their life savings on a card who was just a normal person who managed to save 60K.

Why nuts? I would guess if you took a basket of elite graded cards and compared the rate of return on them to the stock market or most other investments over the last 20 or 10 or 5 years, the cards would have a better rate of return.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why nuts? I would guess if you took a basket of elite graded cards and compared the rate of return on them to the stock market or most other investments over the last 20 or 10 or 5 years, the cards would have a better rate of return.

My personal experience agrees with you wholeheartedly.

[packs]

Ok well do you guys have 401K's or some other retirement plan? If so, why didn't you just pour that money into a few cards?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

Ok well do you guys have 401K's or some other retirement plan? If so, why didn't you just pour that money into a few cards?

I have a rollover 401k. As those rules are, it is tax deferred until I take it out and earns interest that way, compounded. Most of that is in Fidelity Index 500 fund shares. I prefer to leave that alone as to diversify a bit (and not pay the 10% penalty to take it out for cards). Everyone has their own methods. I always think of this imaginary, but oft used, financial "pie" in my head and know there are many pieces for a reason. If I only had 1 piece of pie that piece wouldn't be cards. It would probably be the Fidelity Index 500.....

Having very much money in a savings or other cash type account is actually like losing money in today's economy. All in my humble opinion...
*AND Please seek professional tax and estate planning advice and don't rely on anything I say . I had to sell my whole collection to fund a college degree.....LOL


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[packs]

What I'm really trying to say though is that I don't think a normal person looking to build their future is going to invest 60K or 300K or any significant amount of their life savings in cards. I think the only people who are plunking down 60K or 300K on a select card or cards is a person who isn't counting on the return changing their life. They are more or less gambling and not investing.

[ALR-bishop]

I wonder how many normal people we have on the board. What is normal ?

[packs]

I would guess a lot since you don't often see a Joe Jax like that show up in a pick up thread.

[nat]

If you're an ordinary guy looking to invest his savings, you're not only looking at expected ROI, you're also looking at the probability that you're going to lose everything. Maybe the expected ROI on Mantles is really really high, but there's also a chance that this is a huge bubble and you'll be left holding the bag. If that happens, you're ruined. And avoiding being ruined is extraordinarily important.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nat

If you're an ordinary guy looking to invest his savings, you're not only looking at expected ROI, you're also looking at the probability that you're going to lose everything. Maybe the expected ROI on Mantles is really really high, but there's also a chance that this is a huge bubble and you'll be left holding the bag. If that happens, you're ruined. And avoiding being ruined is extraordinarily important.

Whereas the stock market didn't drop more than 50 percent the last time it crashed.

[kickitup]

Originally Posted by packs

What I'm really trying to say though is that I don't think a normal person looking to build their future is going to invest 60K or 300K or any significant amount of their life savings in cards. I think the only people who are plunking down 60K or 300K on a select card or cards is a person who isn't counting on the return changing their life. They are more or less gambling and not investing.

I am confused? let me get this straight... since the dollar amounts are beyond what you are comfortable spending, trading high end cards should be considered gambling?

Most of the time, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for having more or less money than me, nor do I question their motives or reasons for doing what they do. However, when you say things that are this narrow minded, it makes me understand perhaps why you have less than me and probably always will.

[packs]

What is so confusing? If you're spending 300K on cards, you've probably got the 300K to burn if it's going to cards, right? So then that is entirely different than your 401K or your Roth IRA where you're depending on making money back, because it's your life savings. How does that type of thinking make me a pauper? All I'm saying is buying high end cards at those prices isn't how most people are going to retire. It's how comfortable people might make some more money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kickitup

I am confused? let me get this straight... since the dollar amounts are beyond what you are comfortable spending, trading high end cards should be considered gambling?

Most of the time, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for having more or less money than me, nor do I question their motives or reasons for doing what they do. However, when you say things that are this narrow minded, it makes me understand perhaps why you have less than me and probably always will.

I think you could make your point without ad hominem remarks directed to people's relative net worth, no?

[the 'stache]

There's nothing narrow-minded about his comments. The high end baseball card market is extremely volatile. The prices are going through the roof right now. That trend isn't going to continue forever. What goes up, invariably, will go down. When you consider, too, the amount of market manipulation that is present in our hobby, I just can't see how anybody would be so cavalier. Realizing that, the inherent risk is palpable. If you choose to bet big, more power to you. You may make a lot of money. But don't for a second think your gains are the result of sound financial rationale.

Comparing high end baseball cards to commodities is wildly inappropriate.

Originally Posted by kickitup

I am confused? let me get this straight... since the dollar amounts are beyond what you are comfortable spending, trading high end cards should be considered gambling?

Most of the time, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for having more or less money than me, nor do I question their motives or reasons for doing what they do. However, when you say things that are this narrow minded, it makes me understand perhaps why you have less than me and probably always will.