1994 National Autograph Price List

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by biohazard

I am interested in hearing your opinion on the flat price for members of the baseball hall of fame that would be tough to break even on. Perry jumps off the page but who else?

Brock, Carlton, Feller, Fingers, Jenkins, McCovey, Irvin, Marichal, Perry, Rose.... common show signers for decades. They were charging $15 - $20 for a flat over 20 years ago, and today you'd get around $20 for a flat on eBay. Some are easily found in the $10 bargain box at card shows.

Adjusted for inflation, they are losses today.

[bbcard1]

Bob Feller was always $10.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Brock, Carlton, Feller, Fingers, Jenkins, McCovey, Irvin, Marichal, Perry, Rose.... common show signers for decades. They were charging $15 - $20 for a flat over 20 years ago, and today you'd get around $20 for a flat on eBay. Some are easily found in the $10 bargain box at card shows.

Adjusted for inflation, they are losses today.

But the common comment on the board is that most collectors "never plan to sell their collection." I am still willing to pay the going rate (within reason) to witness the player sign my item. If you did not see the item signed, tell me at times you don't wonder if the signature is really authentic? Peace of mind is worth something.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by biohazard

With the amount of fraud that exists in the hobby why on earth would one buy an autograph off of ebay??? In person, I am willing to pay a little more so the promoter can make a profit. I get to see the player and witness the signature. IMHO, certifications are a license to print money. Tell, me what happens to the coa database when the certifying company goes out of business? COAONLINE used to handle authenticating items at CSA shows. I believe COAONLINE is now defunct. Poof, the coa database is history. Yes, companies like UD, and well known promoters (Tristar, MAB etc.) will likely be known on this site long after the business is gone. But what about the smaller outfits? You just can't be sure about any signature you or a trusted friend did not witness. With, IP your eyes authenticate the item. At the onset of this collecting madness (aka hobby) I vowed to get all signatures in person. For 15 years, I kept that promise before relenting and asking my brother-in-law to get Sam McDowell's signature on an SI for me. It was 18 years before I actually got an item signed via mail order. I create a record for each signature; item signed, date and place, promoter, items advertising the event, ticket stubs etc. anything that places me at the venue when the player was signing. All mail order and TTM signatures are lesser names, that if forging is taking place, so be it. I am not going to sweat it if my Wally Moon, Norm Sherry, or Scott Posednik signatures are fakes.

Yes, there are those who live in an area that does not have major shows nearby. I feel for you, but I would stick with mail order with the bigger promoters CSA, Tristar, MAB etc.

Originally Posted by biohazard

But the common comment on the board is that most collectors "never plan to sell their collection." I am still willing to pay the going rate (within reason) to witness the player sign my item. If you did not see the item signed, tell me at times you don't wonder if the signature is really authentic? Peace of mind is worth something.

The answer to your question is this. People buy on ebay because they can. The stuff is there and usually less expensive for most modern and living players than most private signings or shows. For deceased players, it is much more convenient and sometimes less expensive than going to shows and Auction Houses.

The direct enemy of fraud is education. I have been collecting autographs since 1978 and have put a significant amount of time into educating myself about autographs. I have never ever claimed to be an expert, but I do feel very comfortable being able to identify good from bad for many player autographs. Armed with this knowledge, I can very easily sift out 99% of the bad autos on ebay of the ones I am interested in. If you, or anyone else, has not put the time and energy into the education, then it is very easy to be defrauded. I agree with many of your statements about the TPAs, which is why I only use them for items I am about to sell, if the cost of the process is less than the price difference I can get for a certed auto. Obviously, for many of the above players, the items are, for the most part aren't worth it monetarily.

I am not against getting autos and shows or through private signings, but only for specific items that I can't buy one of somewhere else. If you need a specific card from a specific set that isn't around, I can def see paying a premium to get it signed. I paid $800 for a Muhammad Ali signing to get this magazine signed. Why? Because there was no other way to get it done.




On the other hand, why would anyone pay $395, Koufax's last private signing fee(2015), for a plain Koufax signed ball? You can get good Koufax signed balls on ebay for at least $100 less. Obviously, if you have no idea what Sandy Koufax's sig should look like, you should absolutely not be buying one on ebay, or anywhere else for that matter, except a show/signing. I can't tell you how many Derek Jeter and Mantle balls that a certain member of this board has bought off ebay cheapy simply because people don't know what they are supposed to look like and have no certs.

If you choose to limit your autograph collecting to just those items you see signed in person, there is nothing wrong with that. I sleep like a baby and am totally comfortable in my experience and knowledge protecting me from bad autos. Have I ever been burned? Of course, it's a risk that is factored in when you collect autos. It's merely a matter of risk vs benefit. I am willing to accept, what I feel is a small risk, so that I can enjoy a wide range of autos in my collection. You don't feel that having deceased players in your collection is worth the risk. It's just a different way of looking at things. It's not a matter of right or wrong.

[Huck]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....I did not state nor was it my intention to say that there is a right or wrong way to obtain autographs. How one obtains signatures depends on the comfort level of the collector. I have been collecting autographs since 1991 and fraud was a common complaint then. At the time, I just decided to try and get all of my signatures in person. There was plenty of signed material at the former Tuff-Stuff shows in Richmond, VA, but I did not buy anything. Heck, I drove all the way to Kentucky to see Mantle and the very next year he appeared at the Richmond show! All the major (Williams, DiMaggio, Mantle, Aaron etc.) signatures in my collection are IP. I branched out to TTM, mail order, family and friends because, I can't be everywhere and some signatures could only be had at a private signing.

I think it is great that you are comfortable with your knowledge/expertise of signatures to purchase on ebay or anywhere you please. This isn't my first rodeo but I am just not comfortable buying signed material on ebay or at shows. One has to wonder as to the authenticity of a Mantle or DiMaggio or Williams selling cheaply on ebay. Lesser names, sure, I have dropped under $20 on a Ferris Fain b&w 8x10 for a project I was working on. If the signature is fake, so be it. I have viewed what I believe to be bad signatures on this board but did not comment because I am not expert. Recently, there was a signed card that looked off to me but other experts said it was "good". The thing is without seeing it signed or a strong provenance, no one really, really knows.

With bigger/popular/$$$ names I would be really careful.

I would enjoy adding a Cobb, Ruth or other big names to the collection, but it would take an ironclad provenance before I would shell out any $$.

On the subject of fraud, the entire PSA fake flips worries me. All I purchase is PSA slabbed cards and I am not an expert in flips and casings.

[mattjc1983]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

The answer to your question is this. People buy on ebay because they can. The stuff is there and usually less expensive for most modern and living players than most private signings or shows. For deceased players, it is much more convenient and sometimes less expensive than going to shows and Auction Houses.



The direct enemy of fraud is education. I have been collecting autographs since 1978 and have put a significant amount of time into educating myself about autographs. I have never ever claimed to be an expert, but I do feel very comfortable being able to identify good from bad for many player autographs. Armed with this knowledge, I can very easily sift out 99% of the bad autos on ebay of the ones I am interested in. If you, or anyone else, has not put the time and energy into the education, then it is very easy to be defrauded. I agree with many of your statements about the TPAs, which is why I only use them for items I am about to sell, if the cost of the process is less than the price difference I can get for a certed auto. Obviously, for many of the above players, the items are, for the most part aren't worth it monetarily.



I am not against getting autos and shows or through private signings, but only for specific items that I can't buy one of somewhere else. If you need a specific card from a specific set that isn't around, I can def see paying a premium to get it signed. I paid $800 for a Muhammad Ali signing to get this magazine signed. Why? Because there was no other way to get it done.









On the other hand, why would anyone pay $395, Koufax's last private signing fee(2015), for a plain Koufax signed ball? You can get good Koufax signed balls on ebay for at least $100 less. Obviously, if you have no idea what Sandy Koufax's sig should look like, you should absolutely not be buying one on ebay, or anywhere else for that matter, except a show/signing. I can't tell you how many Derek Jeter and Mantle balls that a certain member of this board has bought off ebay cheapy simply because people don't know what they are supposed to look like and have no certs.



If you choose to limit your autograph collecting to just those items you see signed in person, there is nothing wrong with that. I sleep like a baby and am totally comfortable in my experience and knowledge protecting me from bad autos. Have I ever been burned? Of course, it's a risk that is factored in when you collect autos. It's merely a matter of risk vs benefit. I am willing to accept, what I feel is a small risk, so that I can enjoy a wide range of autos in my collection. You don't feel that having deceased players in your collection is worth the risk. It's just a different way of looking at things. It's not a matter of right or wrong.

That mag is an amazing piece. Were you ever close to getting Unitas on it?

[Lordstan]

Unfortunately not. I wish I could go back in time for stuff like this.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Brock, Carlton, Feller, Fingers, Jenkins, McCovey, Irvin, Marichal, Perry, Rose.... common show signers for decades. They were charging $15 - $20 for a flat over 20 years ago, and today you'd get around $20 for a flat on eBay. Some are easily found in the $10 bargain box at card shows.

Adjusted for inflation, they are losses today.

I think it depends what the flat is. On a generic 8x10 of Feller you'd lose money, but on his 1938 Play Ball rookie, or one of his Bowmans, you'd do well.