Signed T206: Was Rube Marquard's Wife Signing For Him?

[earlywynnfan]

Sorry to come to this late, but I want to share this ball. Had several friendly emails with some respectable hobby types about this Marquard, and this thread seems to fit nicely. This sig was obtained through the mail in the 70's (it's a 70-73 feeney ball, FWIW.) Our discussions trailed off with all of us questioning the atypical "R" along with the odd "D."

[ATP]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Sorry to come to this late, but I want to share this ball. Had several friendly emails with some respectable hobby types about this Marquard, and this thread seems to fit nicely. This sig was obtained through the mail in the 70's (it's a 70-73 feeney ball, FWIW.) Our discussions trailed off with all of us questioning the atypical "R" along with the odd "D."

Ken, thank you for posting this. Its definitely the same style as the ones I have been researching and I am not surprised it was confirmed as through the mail from that era, and on an item that could not have been pre signed like the index or generic photos that were sent out. Since its been a few days, anyone else who is interested in this topic have thoughts as to which direction I should go next as to further the research on this? Thank you.

[chaddurbin]

i don't know jeff, seems like you're meeting some resistance. if someone bought a slabbed t206 marquard sticky R for 2-3k would they really want you to further your research to its logical conclusion? the people that could be the most interested probably are also the most invested. not sure they want to know the truth.

objectively i'd like you to get some leads so we'd have a definitive answer, but that might not be feasible.

[7nohitter]

Would it be possible to obtain a larger sample of confirmed writing from MRS. Marquard?...seems like this would answer many questions.

[T206Collector]

We will have a definitive answer if we ever see a Marquard letter with the sticky R.

Or an in person sig confirmed with sticky R.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

if someone bought a slabbed t206 marquard sticky R for 2-3k would they really want you to further your research to its logical conclusion? the people that could be the most interested probably are also the most invested. not sure they want to know the truth.

I have one of the two - and certainly didn't pay that coin for it. I'd quite like to know the truth!

[ATP]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Sorry to come to this late, but I want to share this ball. Had several friendly emails with some respectable hobby types about this Marquard, and this thread seems to fit nicely. This sig was obtained through the mail in the 70's (it's a 70-73 feeney ball, FWIW.) Our discussions trailed off with all of us questioning the atypical "R" along with the odd "D."

Looking at this ball again on my computer as I was using my phone earlier, look at that M in marquard. How many strokes were used to make it? Is it two, or three starts for that one letter? The middle bottom is area of the M I am referring to. Whoever signed this ball its definitely the same style as the other ones I am theorizing to be wife signed, also a key is the break between the R and the u in Rube and how high up the u starts. Same style in the five others.

[WillowGrove]

Jeff - really interesting that you have had this hypothesis and have done this research. I can add something but not sure how much it helps.

In 1980 my mother wrote a bunch of HOFers and asked them to send me their autograph for my upcoming 15th Birthday and I got a respsonse from Rube. See photos. He mailed it April 17th and passed away June 1st.

All these years went by and it took SGC to point out to me that the signature on the card was a stamp. You'll note it is the exact 'signature' that is on his HOF card. I did a perfunctory search and couldn't find any other stamps. So that's kind of interesting to me in and of itself.

The paper that says Happy Birthday, seems to have Rube's actual signature. This shows that on this particular date, approximately 6 weeks before passing away, it seems that Rube signed a note from a fan, along with including two stamped items. FYI, my mother mailed out her requests about a week prior to the postmark, so the turnaround time was short.

I found Rube's obituary where it says he died, "after a long illness" as well as a quote from his granddaughter who said, "her grandfather had been receiving round-the-clock nursing care for several months. Mr. Marquard, she said, had cancer and was operated on two years ago."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...es/Bm5mXwhInhM

I reviewed this thread on my phone while traveling a few days ago and didn't review again now, so I don't remember if there were any later examples of his signature - but I wanted to post what I had.

For the record, I wrote Rube a thank you note - after receiving his mail on May 6th. I felt good as a kid taking the time to thank him but of course felt terrible to find out he passed away so soon after.

Good convo all. Thanks again Jeff!

[btcarfagno]

I found an image of the 1979 Diamond Greats signed Marquard that I sold a year ago.



Tom C

[7nohitter]

Wow, very rough-but you still see the loop in the R.

[ATP]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Jeff - really interesting that you have had this hypothesis and have done this research. I can add something but not sure how much it helps.

In 1980 my mother wrote a bunch of HOFers and asked them to send me their autograph for my upcoming 15th Birthday and I got a respsonse from Rube. See photos. He mailed it April 17th and passed away June 1st.

All these years went by and it took SGC to point out to me that the signature on the card was a stamp. You'll note it is the exact 'signature' that is on his HOF card. I did a perfunctory search and couldn't find any other stamps. So that's kind of interesting to me in and of itself.

The paper that says Happy Birthday, seems to have Rube's actual signature. This shows that on this particular date, approximately 6 weeks before passing away, it seems that Rube signed a note from a fan, along with including two stamped items. FYI, my mother mailed out her requests about a week prior to the postmark, so the turnaround time was short.

I found Rube's obituary where it says he died, "after a long illness" as well as a quote from his granddaughter who said, "her grandfather had been receiving round-the-clock nursing care for several months. Mr. Marquard, she said, had cancer and was operated on two years ago."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...es/Bm5mXwhInhM

I reviewed this thread on my phone while traveling a few days ago and didn't review again now, so I don't remember if there were any later examples of his signature - but I wanted to post what I had.

For the record, I wrote Rube a thank you note - after receiving his mail on May 6th. I felt good as a kid taking the time to thank him but of course felt terrible to find out he passed away so soon after.

Good convo all. Thanks again Jeff!

Peter, thanks for posting, I really appreciate you taking the time to add what you have, and to include scans. I think it's pretty telling that someone else was working Rube's mail at the time you wrote to him and using that stamp. The little note wishing you a happy birthday clearly is not written by Rube and sure does look an awful lot like the other "Stick" R examples, and definitely looks like the signed T205 I posted and the example of his wife's signature (just look at the "d" finish in Marquard).

And Tom, I think it's also really worth noting, regarding the signed Diamond Greats you posted, that Rube's signature didn't have much left to it at all based on when that was signed (1979 or 1980, but you can STILL see the signature traits you expect), it looks NOTHING like the short note written regarding the Happy Birthday to Peter and would have been signed very close in time based on when that card was made.

I must say that I really was hesitant about creating this post in the first place. I was anxious that I would get bad reactions from some folks, especially those who may have owned one of the examples I was pointing out, but overall I am very happy with the feedback. I hope to continue researching this and would like to invite any others who are reading and haven't posted yet to weigh in, especially those who are in the industry and those who were collecting during Marquard's life and may have other examples they could post. Thanks again.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by ATP

Peter, thanks for posting, I really appreciate you taking the time to add what you have, and to include scans. I think it's pretty telling that someone else was working Rube's mail at the time you wrote to him and using that stamp. The little note wishing you a happy birthday clearly is not written by Rube and sure does look an awful lot like the other "Stick" R examples, and definitely looks like the signed T205 I posted and the example of his wife's signature (just look at the "d" finish in Marquard).

And Tom, I think it's also really worth noting, regarding the signed Diamond Greats you posted, that Rube's signature didn't have much left to it at all based on when that was signed (1979 or 1980, but you can STILL see the signature traits you expect), it looks NOTHING like the short note written regarding the Happy Birthday to Peter and would have been signed very close in time based on when that card was made.

I must say that I really was hesitant about creating this post in the first place. I was anxious that I would get bad reactions from some folks, especially those who may have owned one of the examples I was pointing out, but overall I am very happy with the feedback. I hope to continue researching this and would like to invite any others who are reading and haven't posted yet to weigh in, especially those who are in the industry and those who were collecting during Marquard's life and may have other examples they could post. Thanks again.

Oh I see now Jeff. I was assuming the note was Rube because it has the loop and not the stick.

And Tom's post is so interesting., for reasons you stated.

I wonder if we can figure out when Rube stopped signing himself? In other words, was he consistently signing himself until the end or periodically or was there a cut off maybe after his hospital stay? Again, sorry if this was discussed earlier, I haven't re-read.

I'll have to find the signed Rube I acquired more recently to see where it falls.

Interesting stuff here.

[ATP]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Oh I see now Jeff. I was assuming the note was Rube because it has the loop and not the stick.

And Tom's post is so interesting., for reasons you stated.

I wonder if we can figure out when Rube stopped signing himself? In other words, was he consistently signing himself until the end or periodically or was there a cut off maybe after his hospital stay? Again, sorry if this was discussed earlier, I haven't re-read.

I'll have to find the signed Rube I acquired more recently to see where it falls.

Interesting stuff here.

Peter, as far as I know (from the research I have been doing), there has never been any formal thought that someone was signing for Rube. I don't believe anyone has theorized he may have used a ghost signer before. If someone else has been researching this as well I would love to collaborate. It's interesting too that you have proof of a stamp being used at that time. Admittedly I have been focusing on handwriting and haven't specifically been looking for stamps, so I haven't noticed that before either. Regarding the "Happy Birthday" note, it doesn't quite have the same "Stick" in the R as the others but it's very similar in other areas (the start of the "u" in Rube starting separately and so high above the end of the R, not connecting it with the R, and the finish of the "d", among other things. The letters themselves in the "Happy Birthday" part are nothing like his handwriting. Lastly, it would be quite odd indeed for him to stamp the card and HOF plaque but write the short note. By all means, if you have any other Marquard signed items, especially if you can date to when there were signed, please post away. Best, Jeff

[WillowGrove]

Gotcha Jeff. When I found out my Rube was a stamp after about 35 years, I acquired this one.