Iconic Players from each decade (50's/60's/70's)

[mrmopar]

I don't care personally, but it is funny that the conversations that ultimately include Garvey as a fringe in most people's minds (HOF, this topic, best of ___), almost always turn into a minor bash session on him.

I have collected his stuff for pretty much my whole collecting career but have only met him once. He definitely gets downplayed now, but he was big in the 70s and was often referred to as a shoo in for the HOF. I guess for the sake of my wallet, I am glad he never did make the HOF. Imagine the rash of crap that would be made to commemorate that event, as is the case with every inductee now! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I would give a nod to Garvey for the 70s for sure.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Between getting a reputation as a jackass and sabrmetrics not liking his numbers so much, his stock has really dropped since his peak playing days.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

I don't care personally, but it is funny that the conversations that ultimately include Garvey as a fringe in most people's minds (HOF, this topic, best of ___), almost always turn into a minor bash session on him.

I have collected his stuff for pretty much my whole collecting career but have only met him once. He definitely gets downplayed now, but he was big in the 70s and was often referred to as a shoo in for the HOF. I guess for the sake of my wallet, I am glad he never did make the HOF. Imagine the rash of crap that would be made to commemorate that event, as is the case with every inductee now! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I would give a nod to Garvey for the 70s for sure.

Not bashing on him, just stating factually what happened. His personal life turned into a very well-publicized disaster. And he does not fare well by the sabrmetrics. He ranks 50TH at first base in JAWS for example -- kinda shocking given what seem to be some very good numbers.

[the 'stache]

Garvey, to me, was always a very good player, and incredibly consistent. But I just never thought he was a superstar. Even in the season he won the MVP, he only had a 130 OPS +.

I remember Garvey for playing every game, every season. And, every season, it seemed, he was getting 200 hits, 20 + home runs, and driving in 100 RBI. That's pretty good. But his career OBP is only .329. The National League OBP average between 1969 and 1987 is .320. His OBP is only 9 points higher than the league average during his career. If we're going to say that Roberto Clemente's career .359 OBP is somewhat low for a superstar, how low is a career mark 30 points lower than Clemente's? And Garvey's career SLG is only .446. I ran a report for all NL first baseman who had at least 3,000 ABs between 1969 and 1987. Keith Hernandez had a SLG one point lower than Garvey's, and he certainly was not a power hitter.

And while Garvey did win four Gold Gloves, metrics now show that perhaps he didn't deserve them. In the simplest terms, his dWAR for that four year period was a -2.4. Now, I take that with a grain of salt, because if we believe dWAR is accurate historically (I have my doubts), then Keith Hernandez, who is probably the best defensive first baseman I've seen in my lifetime was only worth slight over one win defensively (1.2 dWAR) during the 11 year period of 1978 to 1988, when he won twelve Gold Gloves.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not bashing on him, just stating factually what happened. His personal life turned into a very well-publicized disaster. And he does not fare well by the sabrmetrics. He ranks 50TH at first base in JAWS for example -- kinda shocking given what seem to be some very good numbers.

[KCRfan1]

Nice points Bill. Spahn usually seems to be overlooked by some, including me.