Another T206 Wagner "? AUTHTCT"

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

had the flip said "complete fake", guy turns around, sells the thing for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card psa would be on the hook for some serious cash.

Bob, let's use your example and tweak it a little bit. Guy has a card and the flip says "altered". He sells it for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card. Would PSA still be on the hook for some serious cash because they mis-graded it the first time?

How can they state a fact (altered, trimmed, re-colored) on one aspect of the card, but only give an opinion (questionable authenticity) on another aspect of a card? It's either altered or it isn't. It's either authentic or it isn't. Authenticity is a black/white issue. There is no gray area.

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

There is zero profit and a ton of liability in identifying fakes.

Wrong! PSA still charges the SAME grading fee whether a card is deemed authentic with a numerical grade or it's rejected for questionable authenticity.

Questionable Authenticity is nothing more than an excuse for incompetency. If your next door neighbor brought you that card for your opinion, would you tell him that it's "questionable authenticity" or would you say, "It's a fake?"

Edited to add: This is from their website: "Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Bob, let's use your example and tweak it a little bit. Guy has a card and the flip says "altered". He sells it for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card. Would PSA still be on the hook for some serious cash because they mis-graded it the first time?

How can they state a fact (altered, trimmed, re-colored) on one aspect of the card, but only give an opinion (questionable authenticity) on another aspect of a card? It's either altered or it isn't. It's either authentic or it isn't. Authenticity is a black/white issue. There is no gray area.



Wrong! PSA still charges the SAME grading fee whether a card is deemed authentic with a numerical grade or it's rejected for questionable authenticity.

Questionable Authenticity is nothing more than an excuse for incompetency. If your next door neighbor brought you that card for your opinion, would you tell him that it's "questionable authenticity" or would you say, "It's a fake?"

Edited to add: This is from their website: "Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

yup...totally agree

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Bob, let's use your example and tweak it a little bit. Guy has a card and the flip says "altered". He sells it for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card. Would PSA still be on the hook for some serious cash because they mis-graded it the first time?

How can they state a fact (altered, trimmed, re-colored) on one aspect of the card, but only give an opinion (questionable authenticity) on another aspect of a card? It's either altered or it isn't. It's either authentic or it isn't. Authenticity is a black/white issue. There is no gray area.



Wrong! PSA still charges the SAME grading fee whether a card is deemed authentic with a numerical grade or it's rejected for questionable authenticity.

Questionable Authenticity is nothing more than an excuse for incompetency. If your next door neighbor brought you that card for your opinion, would you tell him that it's "questionable authenticity" or would you say, "It's a fake?"

Edited to add: This is from their website: "Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

I disagree. They charge the fee for their time. They cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed that its an absolute fake without risking the liability that it entails. Why risk it? Second, I don't charge for my opinion and I am not liable by law to give him an absolutely correct answer. PSA is and won't put the company in a bind when it doesn't have to

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

I disagree. They charge the fee for their time. They cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed that its an absolute fake without risking the liability that it entails. Why risk it? Second, I don't charge for my opinion and I am not liable by law to give him an absolutely correct answer. PSA is and won't put the company in a bind when it doesn't have to

whatever!!!! if psa doesnt know that a t206 wagner only exists with sweet caporal or piedmont backs...and that a t206 wagner with a broad leaf back isn't fake...they're worthless!

[Pilot172000]

l

Originally Posted by ullmandds

whatever!!!! if psa doesnt know that a t206 wagner only exists with sweet caporal or piedmont backs...and that a t206 wagner with a broad leaf back isn't fake...they're worthless!

As a banker, when I decide against a loan, I never tell the client that there is zero chance anyone will give them a loan no matter how bad their situation is. I simply state that I won't give them the loan. PSA is simply stating that they will not authenticate that card. Whose to say some crack pot basement grading service won't authenticate it??

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

l

As a banker, when I decide against a loan, I never tell the client that there is zero chance anyone will give them a loan no matter how bad their situation is. I simply state that I won't give them the loan. PSA is simply stating that they will not authenticate that card. Whose to say some crack pot basement grading service won't authenticate it??

Well then I guess our perspectives are quite different!

When a patient is in my chair and they have some retained roots from a molar that broke decades ago and are concerned about saving the tooth...I have no qualms telling them there is ZERO chance the tooth can be saved. I am confident in my knowledge and abilities and I live in reality!

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Well then I guess our perspectives are quite different!

When a patient is in my chair and they have some retained roots from a molar that broke decades ago and are concerned about saving the tooth...I have no qualms telling them there is ZERO chance the tooth can be saved. I am confident in my knowledge and abilities and I live in reality!

You and I know that most card collectors don't live in reality! JK.

Do you have malpractice insurance? Of course!! Are you going to take a chance when you don't have too? Of course not!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

You and I know that most card collectors don't live in reality! JK.

Do you have malpractice insurance? Of course!! Are you going to take a chance when you don't have too? Of course not!

Ok...But where is the iota of a chance this card could be real here?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

As a banker...?

Mr. Banker, if I were to walk into your bank with some bills you knew to be counterfeit and try and deposit them, would you tell me the bills are fake and confiscate them from me or would you tell me their authenticity is questionable and give them back to me?

Just curious?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Mr. Banker, if I were to walk into your bank with some bills you knew to be counterfeit and try and deposit them, would you tell me the bills are fake and confiscate them from me or would you tell me their authenticity is questionable and give them back to me?

Just curious?

good example!

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Mr. Banker, if I were to walk into your bank with some bills you knew to be counterfeit and try and deposit them, would you tell me the bills are fake and confiscate them from me or would you tell me their authenticity is questionable and give them back to me?

Just curious?

You are now comparing apples and oranges. Making fake bills is a Federal Felony and punishable by law. I am obligated to the FDIC to confiscate them. Making fake cards is not a felony and no matter how unethical, there is no obligation to confiscate or call the police.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

You are now comparing apples and oranges. Making fake bills is a Federal Felony and punishable by law. I am obligated to the FDIC to confiscate them. Making fake cards is not a felony and no matter how unethical, there is no obligation to confiscate or call the police.

You're either just not getting it or you're trying to deflect the issue. We're not talking about the production of counterfeit bills or cards. We're talking about detecting such.

The point I was going to make is, how can you detect counterfeit bills, but PSA can't detect counterfeit cards?

Edited to add: And one last question and I think I will have proven my point. Would you ever deem a bill as "questionable authenticity" or would you categorically say it's either real or it's not?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

whatever!!!! if psa doesnt know that a t206 wagner only exists with sweet caporal or piedmont backs...and that a t206 wagner with a broad leaf back isn't fake...they're worthless!

C'mon Pete they can't even tell if a card is miscut or not and get it right.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

They cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed that its an absolute fake without risking the liability that it entails.

Let's turn your statement around. If they cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed, then how do they know when a card is authentic in order to assign it a numeric grade?

Do you not see how ridiculous your statement sounds?

Once again, from PSAs website, ""Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

[Pilot172000]

Actually it makes perfect sense. They base their company on the authentication of real products and accept all the liability that it entails.