1909 E90-1 Cy Young � Real/Fake

vintagetoppsguy · #1 04-22-2016, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

whoopi1947,
Thank you for checking in on this discussion board. My recommendation for you is that if you have other cards of this age and condition, you should consider sending them in to a 3rd party grading service (PSA or SGC) and having them authenticate the cards and grade them for you. This will give buyers no reason to avoid your and your friend's auctions, and the bids will rise.

If you need someone to explain the grading services to you, feel free to ask questions here or send me a direct message. If you sell a card which books ungraded in VG for $50, the same card could go for $10 if people think it's a fake or for $100-300 if it's graded VG-EX by a reputable grading service.

Spending a little cash up front to have your cards graded should reap benefits down the road.

Everyone has their opinion, mine is different. At this point in my hobby (been doing this for 30 years now - since '86), it doesnt matter to me as a buyer if a card is graded or not - especially on mid grade stuff like this.

A couple weeks ago I bought this graded Lajoie on eBay. I didnt buy it because it was graded and it didnt influence my purchasing decision whatsoever.

As soon as I received it, it came out of its ridiculous plastic tomb. Did I lose money? I could honestly care less. I dont need some TPGs stamp of approval to tell me its real and especially tell me the condition. Then again, the corners are evenly rounded so it could be fake

As Pete said, the seller of these cards will do just fine.

Free from its tomb (and after a little bath to remove tobacco stains)...

swarmee · #2 04-22-2016, 05:45 PM

His goal at this point is to sell the cards on eBay. So the TPGs are very valuable in his situation. They're not for everyone. But they are for this case.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 04-22-2016, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

His goal at this point is to sell the cards on eBay. So the TPGs are very valuable in his situation. They're not for everyone. But they are for this case.

You're inferring that the cards will sell for more if they're graded. That's where we disagree. If they were higher grade cards, I could see your point. But the Young appears somewhere between VG to VG/EX (between a PSA 3-4). I think you will see after the auction is over, it will sell for somewhere between what a PSA 3 or 4 would normally sell for.

The point I was making with the Lajoie was that I would have paid the same thing for it even if it would have been raw. The fact that it was graded didn't bring any more money for the card.

I used to think the sane thing you did, but I've lost confidence in all the TPGs and their opinion means nothing to me anymore. I'm also finding that there are several others who feel the same way.

swarmee · #4 04-22-2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm also finding that there are several others who feel the same way.

Ok, so if there were 50 people who were in the bidding for this item, and 10 of them thought the card was real, and the other 40 thought it was a likely fake, it would end up getting to the same amount? That is the crux of my argument. The other 40 bidders would drop out at 1/3 of the card value or less, leaving the 10 of you to bid it up to 70-80% of the value.
Getting it authenticated by a TPG brings in the other 40 bidders, who will now stay in and possibly bid it to 110-150% of SMR book value (for the rarer/HOF pieces).
This is a brand new seller's friend of vintage cards ON EBAY. That is who I was addressing my recommendation to.

vintagetoppsguy · #5 04-22-2016, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

Ok, so if there were 50 people who were in the bidding for this item, and 10 of them thought the card was real, and the other 40 thought it was a likely fake, it would end up getting to the same amount?

You're equating the number of bidders with the final bid amount. That's not how it works. It only takes 2 bidders to drive the price of the card (or any other item) up.

We'll just have to disagree. But let's revisit this thread in a couple days and see the hammer price.

swarmee · #6 04-23-2016, 04:25 AM

It is apples to oranges now. The cards are now presumed real by a wider swath of the community.

vintagetoppsguy · #7 04-26-2016, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're equating the number of bidders with the final bid amount. That's not how it works. It only takes 2 bidders to drive the price of the card (or any other item) up.

Point proven.

Here is a PSA 3 that recently sold for $1476.01. It had 33 bids by 22 unique bidders.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Here is the card that is the subject. It sold for $1534.74. It had 8 bids by only 2 unique bidders, yet it sold for more than the PSA 3.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

More bidders doesn't mean squat.

Leon · #8 04-26-2016, 11:43 AM

The raw one that is the subject had a better story and publicity.

Anyone can find sales to fit their analysis needs. If I want to and take long enough I am sure I could find some counter-examples. There is a reason almost all higher end cards are graded when sold. Generally speaking they bring more money. But that is only my, and most other AH's and collectors, opinions. There are always anomalies too. And lastly, I am well aware that sometimes a card can sell for more raw as someone might think it's a higher technical grade than it is and pay for that grade . So in those cases selling raw is better. This might be one of those exceptional cases. I can agree with that. But all of the other cards too......I doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Point proven.

Here is a PSA 3 that recently sold for $1476.01. It had 33 bids by 22 unique bidders.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Here is the card that is the subject. It sold for $1534.74. It had 8 bids by only 2 unique bidders, yet it sold for more than the PSA 3.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

More bidders doesn't mean squat.

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