Anyone watching probstein auctions

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...kAAOSw2ENW8C~T

This the one everyone is talking about? The PSA 8 over 20K?
I sold my Mays PSA 7OC on Ebay last year and thought it brought good money then, for what folks considered a 5 because of the OC
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GjsAAO...-1J/s-l500.jpg So are we saying the flip says it all? or can we not say that this one should of received a OC as well?
But after looking- Back in December a 7 from Singapore got 9900 and a 6.5 got 8714 in march 20.

The 8 up now is probably about as close to an OC qualifier as a card could be while still keeping such a high grade. A small fraction of an inch more top to bottom and that card loses about 90% of its value. Pretty crazy when you think about it but that's the way it is.

[glynparson]

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

+1

I prefer a bit of a thinner border on the bottom of the horizontal 51 bowmans .

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

I wasn't saying it should be a 6 based on centering, just that it looks like it is very close to being OC. And that on a card with this kind of value that small difference on the boarder amounts to a huge difference in price.

Chris's 7 he mentioned was only slightly off top to bottom more than this one.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I wasn't saying it should be a 6 based on centering, just that it looks like it is very close to being OC. And that on a card with this kind of value that small difference on the boarder amounts to a huge difference in price.

Chris's 7 he mentioned was only slightly off top to bottom more than this one.

Right well you sell the holder not the card...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

I agree. Even if centering was an issue, the card would get a straight 7 not a 6.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

People need to read the grading standards. I agree.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

That's a laugh.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Is there a seller that one doesn't have to watch closely for bid retractions, bidders with 90-100% of their history with the same seller, etc.? I watch for that on every auction.

I actually think its one of the positives of eBay that you have that visibility. I've dropped out of auctions where I was bidding against bidders that had a number less than 5 next to their user name (I'm not sure what the number is called). I've also spotted a case where the previous auction types the bidder had bid on were mostly apparel and other stuff. It was suspicious to me that person was suddenly bidding on 1930s football cards - eclectic taste I guess And even though I snipe in the end, I usually throw a few bids out to get a feel who is bidding against me. And the final method I use is that if the item is already over my valuation on the last day which happens - I walk away - no reason to set a snipe in that case. Of course there are sellers I won't deal with - but I'm pretty lenient - the alternative - dealing with sellers where I feel there is 0% chance of an auction being tampered would be kind of boring and maybe impossible because of the nature of the system.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

+1 on this.

Regards,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The 8 up now is probably about as close to an OC qualifier as a card could be while still keeping such a high grade. A small fraction of an inch more top to bottom and that card loses about 90% of its value. Pretty crazy when you think about it but that's the way it is.

How does it lose 90 percent of its value? 8s have a tighter centering tolerance than 7s so it would drop to a 7. A big gap still but not 90 percent.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How does it lose 90 percent of its value? 8s have a tighter centering tolerance than 7s so it would drop to a 7. A big gap still but not 90 percent.

An 8 to an 8 OC would be about a 90% swing. VCP doesn't have recent data for either but it's 33k vs about 2500. Today it could be 50k vs 5 or 6. Not really sure on thst.

If it got into a 7 holder obviously that's a different story. But I am not completely convinced PSA would only hit a card one grade if someone requested no qualifier. I know that issue has been discussed but it's open to interpretation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

An 8 to an 8 OC would be about a 90% swing. VCP doesn't have recent data for either but it's 33k vs about 2500. Today it could be 50k vs 5 or 6. Not really sure on thst.

If it got into a 7 holder obviously that's a different story. But I am not completely convinced PSA would only hit a card one grade if someone requested no qualifier. I know that issue has been discussed but it's open to interpretation.

I once went the other direction although the swing wasn't nearly as big as it would be today. Bought a Russell in an 8 oc. Got it into a straight 8. Sold it to the same guy for a multiple of what I had paid. It was hysterical. All about the flip.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I once went the other direction although the swing wasn't nearly as big as it would be today. Bought a Russell in an 8 oc. Got it into a straight 8. Sold it to the same guy for a multiple of what I had paid. It was hysterical. All about the flip.

That can't be possible with such strict calibrated grading standards Peter

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

That can't be possible with such strict calibrated grading standards Peter

2 bids in the last 30 days, 1 cancellation. Something is rotten in Denmark. God, is there a legitimate eBay seller anymore?

[glynparson]

A laugh ? How it is well documented that many early sgc graded cards during the merkle era were not judged harshly at all in fact when I worked at sgc it was not a guarantee that cards graded during the merkle regime would be regraded with the same grade as many were outside the tolerance not sure exactly what you meant but your wrong if you were disagreeing with me. It is honestly not just merkle era grades either as it is often discussed throughout the industry how sgc is not as strict on centering.It is well within the 70-30 PSA says it can be and still get an 8 ( I agree you seldom see a 70-30 card in an 8): PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

2 bids in the last 30 days, 1 cancellation. Something is rotten in Denmark. God, is there a legitimate eBay seller anymore?

Still a few good ones. Getting fewer I am afraid

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I once went the other direction although the swing wasn't nearly as big as it would be today. Bought a Russell in an 8 oc. Got it into a straight 8. Sold it to the same guy for a multiple of what I had paid. It was hysterical. All about the flip.

Hilarious....the exact same card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Hilarious....the exact same card.

The flip is all.

[Filthy]

I am NOT speaking of any company specifically, in regards to this thread itself...but I can comment about first hand experiences in regards to 3rd party marketplace sellers/resellers.

I am in the E-Commerce business, and spend a fair amount of time with my clients who are the 3rd party sellers on sites "like" Ebay, Amazon, Wal Mart. com etc... I have seen it with my own eyes, in a Brooklyn basement, a room with 10-12 guys on computers, that are all making listings, bidding, manipulating, sales, rankings, etc. These guys in one room would also have anywhere between 5-10 different storefront names each, otherwise anywhere between 100-150 different usernames/storefronts, buying/selling/making transactions all day everyday on each others accounts, all under the guise of different people all around the world. Bidding up auction pricing, shill bidding hundreds of auctions, and manipulating any given market. Between the group, they can build what looks to be a reputable storefront, with great ratings, without any product or money ever exchanging hands. These guys burn thru about $2-$3 million per month, and for the most part...aren't even touching the product. They are literally being paid to manipulate the market. The manufacturers of these goods "act" like they absolutely hate it...yet wont do anything to stop it, because those same "ghost" transactions/company fronts, are the same ones building the ratings....in tern, get people to buy a product...that otherwise wouldn't ever show up on anyone's radar. Whether it be sporting goods, vintage collectibles, electronics, or home goods...the manipulation of auctions, and market pricing happens, and happens ALOT!!!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I once went the other direction although the swing wasn't nearly as big as it would be today. Bought a Russell in an 8 oc. Got it into a straight 8. Sold it to the same guy for a multiple of what I had paid. It was hysterical. All about the flip.

Do you have before and after scans?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Do you have before and after scans?

No it was many many years ago, probably in the 90s.

[JollyElm]

I've bought quite a few things over the years from Greg Morris and have never had even an inkling of a problem with the cards.

Edited to add: I don't want to kick up any dust here, but it's important to note that the end prices of his auctions have (seemingly?) continued to go up. Could be he has many more people following his auctions or it possibly could be something more nefarious. Dunno. Take it for what it's worth.