Most difficult cards in the T211 Red Sun set

[abroome]

Only T211 I've discovered in the wild was about 7 or so years ago at a small motel show in DFW. Pretty much just a handful of dealers selling modern cards.
I asked each dealer if they had any T206s since most modern guys at least know of T206s.
One guy said yes, I do have one. He unzipped a bank money bag and pulled a card out. He says "its a black and white one."
It was a pretty decent condition T211 Bayless. If I remember, it was probably VG. I quickly paid his asking price.

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[shernan30]

Originally Posted by abroome

Only T211 I've discovered in the wild was about 7 or so years ago at a small motel show in DFW. Pretty much just a handful of dealers selling modern cards.
I asked each dealer if they had any T206s since most modern guys at least know of T206s.
One guy said yes, I do have one. He unzipped a bank money bag and pulled a card out. He says "its a black and white one."
It was a pretty decent condition T211 Bayless. If I remember, it was probably VG. I quickly paid his asking price.

Talk about a good day at a modern card show

[packs]

Is every subject known? Could there theoretically be a Stengel?

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by packs

Is every subject known? Could there theoretically be a Stengel?

On the back of the Red Sun it says "First Series 1 to 75". All of the 75 players are known and Stengel is not part of that set because he was not in the Southern Association. (The whole set is Southern Association Teams. Stengel was in BlueGrass League)

Also many in the hobby believe a 2nd series was very possible, but never produced. The suggestion of "First Series" is one obvious indicator.

[DixieBaseball]

There are a few raw complete sets out there and a few folks close to completing the 75 card set as well. These cards are all rare and I believe the Pop reports for PSA/SGC do distinguish a bit between the rare cards to show a pattern. My guess is with Pop reports + Raw you are in that 6-15 range of each player. Could be a little more or less for any one player. If you think about it. Less than 15 specimens of each player.... wow.

Beautiful cards...

[shernan30]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

There are a few raw complete sets out there and a few folks close to completing the 75 card set as well. These cards are all rare and I believe the Pop reports for PSA/SGC do distinguish a bit between the rare cards to show a pattern. My guess is with Pop reports + Raw you are in that 6-15 range of each player. Could be a little more or less for any one player. If you think about it. Less than 15 specimens of each player.... wow.

Beautiful cards...

Great looking card and pack!! I just got started in the cigarette pack collecting thanks to Jon Canfield. I have a better appreciation seeing a card with the pack it would have been found in.

I only have 1 Red Sun on my checklist, Charlie Babb. He played 3 games for the Columbus Senators in 1897.
If anyone has an "EXTRA" laying around I'm paying well .

Steven

[darwinbulldog]

The distribution of the numbers of graded cards from the set is consistent with what you'd expect if all the cards had been printed in equal numbers. Possibly some card(s) were double-printed or short-printed, but there's no particular evidence of that. My guess is whichever ones are rarest today just became that way more or less by chance. Some of them have 1 or 2 more surviving copies than the average card in the set; some of them have 1 or 2 fewer. It would be astonishing if that didn't happen.

[spec]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

The distribution of the numbers of graded cards from the set is consistent with what you'd expect if all the cards had been printed in equal numbers. Possibly some card(s) were double-printed or short-printed, but there's no particular evidence of that. My guess is whichever ones are rarest today just became that way more or less by chance. Some of them have 1 or 2 more surviving copies than the average card in the set; some of them have 1 or 2 fewer. It would be astonishing if that didn't happen.

Finally, someone who understands normal distribution. It is illogical to assume there are scarce cards in every set, or even most of them.

[DixieBaseball]

Now we get to the part of the conversation where the collecting public discusses "their" definition of what is "scarce" and what is "rare".

Regardless of distribution pattern being equal/unequal, Red Sun's are the topic of conversation of this thread and it's safe to say that there isn't 20 of any one player in that 75 card set. I believe in 10 years we can look at this thread and if we count raw sales, pop reports it will still be much of the same.

One caveat to keep in mind on pop reports is there is a little bit of redundancy due to re-grade, cross-overs, etc. - Most Grade card folks are not flip responsible and send those back in to be pulled from pop reports. (I actually do this on any rare or scarce card b/c it will impact pop numbers over time) Now, if it's my 1970 Kelloggs psa graded card, I throw the flips away

Anyway, What is rare? 1-10 ? 1-15? What is scarce? 25-50? 50-100?
We have exhausted this conversation in many different threads over the years. Typically we circle back to the Honus Wagner T206 as the overused term of "Rare" inevitably comes up when this card comes up for sale. Is it truly rare or is it scarce? There are about 75 examples of it. Since they are not sold very often, demand is there thus making it difficult, and the price also makes it very difficult. So is it rare or scarce?

[yomass]

Seitz was the last one I found for my set.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by yomass

Seitz was the last one I found for my set

Then I would think it would be as scarce as they get for the series. I know you probably searched quite a bit. On the converse, 3/4 of Bayless seems to be seen more than many others. Who the heck at production thought his card looked correct?
(Not mine anymore)..

[Tao_Moko]

It has always seemed to me that scarcity/rarity somewhat depends on the team. The Barons only have three players featured which is the fewest of any team in the set. I've never been crazy enough to go after this set, but I would expect that the team least favoured could potentially be the most difficult. Only speculation and there are not enough examples to prove my theory. In my opinion all cards are good examples of what could be considered "rare".

Just imagine if a Joe Jackson existed.