Love me some paper thin (T213-1) Coupons

[Leon]

I will concede more time is needed. Of course what he cataloged may not be accurate when put in context of other things. All I am saying is that I am not convinced because of my stated view and the reasons given. And btw, I think collectors can accept type 1s as being T206. It doesn't hurt my feelings. But in conversation I will give my views based on information I have. I think the whole Coupon set is kind of interesting.

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

What I am saying is he didn't get it right or wrong. He made a designation that is his catalog system. We all abide by it as definitive, but we probably need to relax that a bit. I think we can more safely argue the Type 1 Coupon is more like T206's than it is like T213-2 and 3's. There is more distinction in the other 2 Coupons relative to Type 1 than there is with Type 1 Coupon to the 16 ATC brands that comprise T206.

I think more time is needed, but to say Burdick got it right and Burdick is correct may not be accurate. It may be that Burdick simply did what he wanted to (Based on what Burdick knew at the time) when cataloging the Coupons together which is neither right or wrong.

As for the debate among collector's. It may be time for a poll which changes nothing according to Burdick's ACC, but does help collectors understand that it may not be a different type of card and just accept that as the gospel.

[DixieBaseball]

Leon - It makes for compelling debate for sure. Facts are lacking on both sides of the debate and this is why I believe we need to condition Burdick's ACC designation that Type 1 Coupons are not part of the other 16 ATC brands that comprise the group called T206. It's seems more likely they should be than not in my opinion. Would love to hear other hobby opinions...

Originally Posted by Leon

I will concede more time is needed. Of course what he cataloged may not be accurate when put in context of other things. All I am saying is that I am not convinced because of my stated view and the reasons given. And btw, I think collectors can accept type 1s as being T206. It doesn't hurt my feelings. But in conversation I will give my views based on information I have. I think the whole Coupon set is kind of interesting.

[tedzan]

"Paper thin...."

The "paper thin" stock argument used by some to disprove that these cards are T206's is a "red herring" !

The 1910 COUPON cards were never meant to be cigarette pack "stiffeners" (as the regular T206's were).

That's because these COUPON cigarettes in 1910 were not marketed in Cigarette packs. And, I predict that none such pack will be found.

In the Spring of 1910, these cigarettes were marketed packaged loosely (by the 100's) in cartons labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes.


TED Z
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[DixieBaseball]

Ted,
Your info lends to my theory that the Coupon Type 1 cards were either in Coupon Carton's or Coupon Boxes or given to retailers of Coupon Cigarettes as promotional items, thus the limited availability.

See RPPC where Boxes of Coupons are pressed against the glass with probably Cartons of cigarettes in them like these:

[tedzan]

Great pictures....thanks for posting these cartons....they reinforce my argument as to why American Litho printed the 1910 COUPON cards on thinner cardboard stock.

Furthermore, many 1910 COUPON cards are found with similar paper loss on the upper part of their backs.....for example, here are a few from my collection:

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.

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The consistency of this paper loss on these cards has me thinking that it's because some of these cards were glued onto these cigarette cartons.

Your uppermost carton appears to have such a "glue spot" in its upper right corner.


TED Z
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[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, y'all..
Jeremy, If you recall I traded you this Hickman a few years ago..If you still have it and want to trade or sell it back let me know.
Most of these I scooped up on ebay in the 90's and early 2000's..a few I've had since the 80's..There was a complete set offered by Mastro years ago and the Mathewson I have came from that lot years later thru B&L. I don't know if that whole set was completely broken up or not....Rob.

[DixieBaseball]

Hello Rob,
Great to hear from you! You have done a heck of a job assembling those little paper thin beauties! I would love to see all those either : submitted to SGC and labeled the McKenzie Collection on the Flip or all of them cracked out and put into a album. Also would love to see all of them in a group scan side by side front and back up close. Just for drooling purposes

I certainly remember doing many T213 Type 1 trades and sales with you among others in this thread. I believe we both benefited in our deals and if memory serves I sold you some very nice conditioned T213's as well as some 3 for 2 and 2 for 1 type trades. Good times... Wished I had more to trade. I still own the Hickman in my SL collection and if I ever trade or sell it, I will contact you first! Also, please email me if you ever find the Rhoades to get you down to one card needed.

Let's keep this great thread going and share more net 54 board members Type 1 Coupon examples. (Here's my 2nd contribution to this thread - Charlie Fritz who spent the 1909 season with the Pelicans & Turtles)