scam alert: fake psa cards from ebay seller "cardregistry"

[Tennis13]

Let's say they are motivated by money. I can think of three ways off the top of my head to turn your laughing -- and I have my strong opinions about CLCT as well -- into an even greater profit/growth industry for them.

I mean, the pricing models one could come up with to make money off their grading oligopoly is insane. The reason you laugh -- they are like an airline comany-- is because they are in an oligopolistic market. Near monopoly, perhaps.

I know why you laugh. Trust me, I know. Let's assume they are able to focus on the business rather than the scurrying cockroaches coming out of the corners, the evolution of fraud is an evolution of profitability for an industry leader. They could change some sort of pricing models here, introduce a new technology and boom, growth and margins are manufactured overnight.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

Let's say they are motivated by money. I can think of three ways off the top of my head to turn your laughing -- and I have my strong opinions about CLCT as well -- into an even greater profit/growth industry for them.

I mean, the pricing models one could come up with to make money off their grading oligopoly is insane. The reason you laugh -- they are like an airline comany-- is because they are in an oligopolistic market. Near monopoly, perhaps.

I know why you laugh. Trust me, I know. Let's assume they are able to focus on the business rather than the scurrying cockroaches coming out of the corners, the evolution of fraud is an evolution of profitability for an industry leader. They could change some sort of pricing models here, introduce a new technology and boom, growth and margins are manufactured overnight.

They already have an overwhelming market share. Where is the growth going to come from?

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They already have an overwhelming market share. Where is the growth going to come from?

Without giving away a very easy business model secret, currently you send in a card -- whether it is 1990, 2000 or 2016 -- and they almost never touch it again.

Meanwhile, the end consumer is buying and trading authenticated slabs with sonic sealing and holograms. Sort of like running your PC on Windows 95, no? Or do people even use PCs anymore? Amazing how services/products can become obsolete so fast.....I do wonder if there is a business opportunity there.....(It's HUGE given the brand....and it would allow them to perhaps undo some prior wrongs).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Perhaps, although they have already hit up the "installed base" to use an analogy for half grades, and I suspect quite a number of folks have sent in cards for the newest generation of holder even if it isn't much of an improvement in terms of security. Not sure how many times you can go back to that well.

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suspect quite a number of folks have sent in cards for the newest generation of holder even if it isn't much of an improvement in terms of security.

Start by making it a "revolutionary improvement", use diamond, casino, jewelry and other industries with high fraud problems as a template, and invest $1 mln or $3 mln there, as opposed to burning that money on some online swap meet....but i digress......I do think the lack of security evolution is a big problem, but also a very reliable, recurring revenue generator for this business.

The hologram and sonic seal, based on this example, seems like it's not reliable anymore. And if I want to ensure my $1000 baseball card is legit, I am willing to pay a small premium for the revolutionary grading going forward. And if I need to sell one with the old holder, well, I sure do hope the hologram and the sonic seal are good enough.....or else......cha ching.

[begsu1013]

can see a tad of frosting in that top right hand corner of the mantle, so it maaaaay be a little bit securer, i guess.

it's certainly a lil more noticeable than what was on the one i purchased.

does anyone here know anything about the sonic welding process?

curious if you can re-weld a previous welded spot?

is the cloudy spot/corner from the case being cracked or is that simply some adhesive that has clouded up.

they used to just use krazy glue and it was extremely easy to spot...

if it's the adhesive, then they've gotten much better at concealing that part of it....

edit: imagining a mental picture of all these guys down in mehico setting up test runs w. all sorts of glue imported from all over the place

[steve B]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

can see a tad of frosting in that top right hand corner of the mantle, so it maaaaay be a little bit securer, i guess.

it's certainly a lil more noticeable than what was on the one i purchased.

does anyone here know anything about the sonic welding process?

curious if you can re-weld a previous welded spot?

is the cloudy spot/corner from the case being cracked or is that simply some adhesive that has clouded up.

they used to just use krazy glue and it was extremely easy to spot...

if it's the adhesive, then they've gotten much better at concealing that part of it....

edit: imagining a mental picture of all these guys down in mehico setting up test runs w. all sorts of glue imported from all over the place

Here's some info.
Slabs are most likely polycarbonate (Lexan)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_welding

Rewelding in a different fashion or even the same might be possible, but would be a bit of a challenge.

Assuming a take of 150K a month or better, there are very few technological hurdles you could put in the way that would be all that hard to defeat.
Even the treasury believes that counterfeit notes are available very soon after the release of the new designs.

Steve B

[mrcardfan]

Just read the entire thread all I can say OMG. I have some graded cards in the new PSA holders and I don't see how they can be tampered with . The older holders you can pop them open and reseal easy like that 67 mantle . But that 52 mantle 8 not sure those can be opened or resealed or tampered with.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

I know why you laugh. Trust me, I know.

No, actually, you do not.

[glynparson]

The holder was not even sealed. I find it more than a little coincidental an auction company owned by PSA's biggest rival was selling a terribly bad holdered Mantle. Everyone I have spoken to that saw the card in person said there is no way that it should have made it to Bill's catalog. They said it is nowhere near the quality of the older slabbed Mexico fakes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

The holder was not even sealed. I find it more than a little coincidental an auction company owned by PSA's biggest rival was selling a terribly bad holdered Mantle. Everyone I have spoken to that saw the card in person said there is no way that it should have made it to Bill's catalog. They said it is nowhere near the quality of the older slabbed Mexico fakes.

I don't understand the conspiracy theory here. It sounds to me like Bill just missed it.

[glynparson]

What I have been told by people with way more knowledge of the situation than either of us have. And I had no reason to believe I was being lied to at the time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

What I have been told by people with way more knowledge of the situation than either of us have. And I had no reason to believe I was being lied to at the time.

So what are your sources suggesting happened? Bill sees a bad half million dollar card, and Beckett tells him not to pull it so as to embarrass PSA?? Help me understand what Bill's affiliation with Beckett has to do with this?

[Leon]

I guess our guy in Mexico? (hi Copperfield) is still at it. Yes, he goes by Copperfield.
He interrupted my lunch pizza buffet to call me a little while ago. i had seen about 5 stupid looking calls (Magic jack, 5 numbers) on my cell and didn't know what it was, it was him.
He says he will never get caught as he is too good. I told him good for him, karma will catch up. He said he hasn't had bad karma and I said so what. At any rate, I guess he is still at it the way he was before. I ended our call as I was sitting in front of the restaurant talking to him and was really getting hungry. He is brash.