Various T205 Variations of Danny Hoffman

[bn2cardz]

I had once started a thread mentioning a variation for the T205 Hoffman I hadn't seen discussed that had a stripe in the background. While trying to find more versions I have found a couple other variants.

The four Variants I have found so far are:

1) Yellow Second base, no stripe
2) Yellow Second base, stripe
3) White Second base, Face detailed
4) White Second base, Face lacking detail, also includes small triangle of yellow next to first base


I do own a copy of 2 and 4. Variation number 1 seems to be the easiest to find based off the images sifted through on CardTarget. Quick search makes it look like the White second base can be found with Piedmont, Polar Bear and Sovereign.

The only back I could find (the one I own) for #4 is Piedmont, the image I put below is from the Library of Congress and not my card the quality of the image looks the same but my gold is aligned more accurately.


I plan to go through and figure out backs, but if you know anymore info about the different variations and their respective backs or have images please share.

I was trying to upload a large image to photobucket but had had issues tonight. So I just attached a smaller verson of it for the time being, but the versions can be found through google image search or cardtarget.

[bn2cardz]

Here is a larger image of the four variations as described above.

[Mrc32]

I'd love to see a new variation be found.

But these just look like printing differences, rather than printing mistakes/corrections which would lead me to believe it was a variation.

[btcarfagno]

Does the yellow/white base issue exist on any other card? If so I would agree that it is likely a printing issue at the top of the card. If, however, there are no other known cards with this "yellow base" issue, then I believe that Andy may well be onto something.

Tom C

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Mrc32

I'd love to see a new variation be found.

But these just look like printing differences, rather than printing mistakes/corrections which would lead me to believe it was a variation.

There are multiples of each type. These are not one offs.

I haven't done a lot of research and was hoping someone that has looked at the set longer could add to the info I already have quickly found in the last year.
The White 2nd Base I have seen on Sovereign and Piedmont
The white 2nd Base lack of facial detail (includes a yellow triangle near first base) has only been on Piedmont that I have seen. I own one (not pictured, and doesn't have a severe gold offset as the one pictured) and the pictured one is from the Library of Congress scans. Looking through the scans on CardTarget I couldn't find another. I thought the Library of Congress one was just a bad scan until I saw one on ebay and took a chance and now have it in hand to know that it really does exist.

[bn2cardz]

Here is card 4 (the lack of facial detail with the white base and triangle of yellow on base paths near first base) that I had recently acquired showing that there are, at the very least, two of this version.


What I see is what is a light brown/tan is replaced with black ink or missing all together. This causes a lack of definition in the cheeks and nose, while adding a darkness to the eyes, forehead, and neck/chin.

[Econteachert205]

Andy, NIce pickup on that recent Hoffmann. I was following that and curious as to all of the action. I messaged the seller asking whether it was a scan isssue or if it really looked that way. It's a beautiful card. I have two Hoffmann's, one with the stripe and one without, will have to check on which variation tonight.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Andy, NIce pickup on that recent Hoffmann. I was following that and curious as to all of the action. I messaged the seller asking whether it was a scan isssue or if it really looked that way. It's a beautiful card. I have two Hoffmann's, one with the stripe and one without, will have to check on which variation tonight.

I was ecstatic to see it. I had a max bid that if it hit would have set a new record for t205 hoffmans graded 4, but I had to see it in person to see if it matched the scan and the scan from LOC and didn't want to risk losing out on it.

[whelenfan]

nice research.

[T205 GB]

Nice work Andy

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by whelenfan

nice research.

I am hoping people with larger collections can help after I threw out the small nuggets. I was wanting to go through Cardtarget, but they haven't had t205 information for a few days now. I don't have a VCP account anymore so I am just not easily able to research what cards are found with each back.

I have found that Piedmonts seem to come up less than Sovereigns and Polar Bear for Hoffman, so it has been hard to figure out how wide spread the "lack of detail" print anomaly really is. It could be something that vary's as the print run was going on. Also I am pretty sure I saw polar bear with and without the white base, but that was the only back I saw that with. Again I am not positive because there were things I started noticing before trying to actually track them. That is why I would love the help of others that know more about the set (or have more saved scans).

[Leon]

Nice Research....thanks for sharing..

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I had once started a thread mentioning a variation for the T205 Hoffman I hadn't seen discussed that had a stripe in the background. While trying to find more versions I have found a couple other variants.

The four Variants I have found so far are:

1) Yellow Second base, no stripe
2) Yellow Second base, stripe
3) White Second base, Face detailed
4) White Second base, Face lacking detail, also includes small triangle of yellow next to first base


I do own a copy of 2 and 4. Variation number 1 seems to be the easiest to find based off the images sifted through on CardTarget. Quick search makes it look like the White second base can be found with Piedmont, Polar Bear and Sovereign.

The only back I could find (the one I own) for #4 is Piedmont, the image I put below is from the Library of Congress and not my card the quality of the image looks the same but my gold is aligned more accurately.


I plan to go through and figure out backs, but if you know anymore info about the different variations and their respective backs or have images please share.

I was trying to upload a large image to photobucket but had had issues tonight. So I just attached a smaller verson of it for the time being, but the versions can be found through google image search or cardtarget.

[bn2cardz]

I understand that some may just consider type 2 and 4 printing flaws and not a true variant, but since there are multiple copies I consider them variants. Even if those are not considered variants in your book the Yellow and White second base can't be ignored as variants. For the purpose of this thread and those interested I will keep it divided as 4 variants as it may help understand the printing of the cards.

I finally was able to get back to seeing images on cardtarget. They don't seem to have as much info as they use to have. They only had 48 sales recorded. There may be some duplicating as I didn't sort through it all to find that out so I the counts may not be accurate.

I threw out one scan as it was hard to tell as it looks like it had been colored with a marker. So I only have the 47 Cardtarget cards. That isn't a very large sample but it should get us a little more understanding of the break down and by backs.

Type 1 Yellow 2nd no stripe: 29 of 47
Sweet Cap 25 Black
Sweet Cap 42 Black
Honest Long Cut
Piedmont (received in post 20)

Type 2 Yellow base with stripe: 1 of 47
Sweet Cap 42 Black
Sweet Cap 25 Black**

Type 3 White base full detail: 16 of 47
Sovereign
Polar Bear
Piedmont

Type 4 White base lack detail and (yellow triangle on base path): 1 of 47
Piedmont


**The cardtarget site only had the Sweet Cap 42 Black for type 2, but the one I own is Sweet Cap 25 Black as well as there being a 25 noted for sale in my original thread



If you have any more info on any of the front types with the corresponding back please let us know in this thread.

[T205 GB]

PWCC has a type 4 with Pied 25 listed in a PSA 5

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

PWCC has a type 4 with Pied 25 listed in a PSA 5

I would consider that type 3. As you can see there is no triangle of yellow near the 1st base on the path. But the lack of detail should be noticed in the nose and cheeks. PWCC's has a defined bridge of the nose as well as crease lines from the nose to the mouth. The type 3 and 4 do seem to have darker blacks and a more orange background compared to 1 and 2 (instead of vibrant red), but the lack of detail is the main difference between 3 and 4. Type 4 looks more like outline with no shading.

Here is the PWCC next to the one I post above:

[Econteachert205]

I have a black sweet cap 25 type 1 and a black sweet cap 42 type 2

[marcdelpercio]

I just picked up a Hoffman "stripe" variation with an Honest back. As far as I can see from the previous posted research, this is the first non-Sweet Caporal back with the stripe.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

I just picked up a Hoffman "stripe" variation with an Honest back. As far as I can see from the previous posted research, this is the first non-Sweet Caporal back with the stripe.

Nice!

This is the first I have seen, but I am not an expert and have limited data to research so this may not be the only one of its type. It is still cool to see that it does cross to a third back.

[Pat R]

I don't follow the T205's that close but since the stripe "variation" appears to be printing
flaw it makes sense to me that this would exist with the Honest Long
Cut back because it already existed with the no stripe "variation" and they
were both previously confirmed with SC 25 black and SC 42 black.

[bn2cardz]

For those that are following these. I did find and receive a Yellow second base - No Stripe with a Piedmont back.

[whelenfan]

Anything new on the hoffman hunt? I have been looking for my first, but have been unable to find any in my price range so far.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by whelenfan

Anything new on the hoffman hunt? I have been looking for my first, but have been unable to find any in my price range so far.

I was going to revisit the research recently with any updates from cardtarget, but ironically that was when cardtarget went down. I don't have a VCP account so I am limited on my research. I, too, am curious if anyone else has anything they can add to the research I started.

[bn2cardz]

I decided to take the cards I had, including the one I randomly pulled from a box of 2002 Topps 206 recently, and put them in a quick visual grid. I figured others may find it useful as well.



Grid by andy neubert, on Flickr

[Pat R]

Hi Andy, I came across this Hoffman while looking through the Burdick
collection.
Hoffman T205.jpg

[whelenfan]

i love that hoffman Pat!!!!!