HOF is a Joke

[glchen]

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

Yes, but at the same time, the hitting thresholds are lower for middle infielders. That said, I don't see either of those guys as worthy. Of the four you mention, Morris seems the closest.

[Bruinsfan94]

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

WAR is WAR if it is calculated correctly which means rule changes are considered.

But if WAR is the true determination of value, then WAR above a certain number means you are in. Case closed. Just pick a number and voters are no longer necessary.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

McCarthy and Hugh Duffy were known as the "Heavenly Twins" when they starred for the championship Boston teams of the early 1890s, and were commonly linked together as good players who were also innovators in the way the game was played. McCarthy was widely thought to have invented the hit-and-run play, though modern research has shown that he did not actually do so. (He did probably help popularize it, and other tricks such as deliberately trapping balls in the outfield to force out a runner.)

McCarthy and Duffy were voted into the HOF in 1945-46 by the Veterans' Committee during a two-year period when the Hall inducted 21 new members, following a six-year break during World War II when it only inducted two. These 21 men inducted in 1945-46 were mostly from the 19th century and the dead-ball era, and they included several other players besides McCarthy whose qualifications might be questioned by modern observers, but who were seen at the time as pioneers or important figures in their day. These include Roger Bresnahan (a pretty good player who is basically in the HOF for inventing shin guards); Joe Tinker, Johnny Evers, and Frank Chance (all pretty good players on championship teams, stars in their day, but in the HOF for a poem); and Jack Chesbro (who had one monster year and several other very good ones, but who only pitched nine full seasons, and is in the HOF mainly for having the post-1900 record for single-season wins). Hugh Duffy arguably belongs in this group as well; he's a more legitimate HOFer than McCarthy, though not a slam-dunk by the numbers (.326 lifetime BA in a hitter's era, 43.0 lifetime WAR in 14 full seasons), and a big reason for his induction was probably his record for highest single-season batting average.

[53Browns]

I agree with Bill James, McCarthy is the worst player in the HOF. IMHO.

[Rookiemonster]

All time hit king not in

All time homerun King not in

7 time cy young award winner not in


So who is in ? Sure some greats are in of course but without these guys
What is the hall of fame ?

[RaidonCollects]

George Kelly...

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think you're forgetting Tommy McCarthy of the 16.1 career WAR, so low he doesn't even make the top 1000 cutoff.

Frankly, I grew up during the age of those great Tiger teams of Trammell and Whitaker. I always thought of those two as solid All Stars, but not HOFer material. I thought those Tiger teams were led by Gibson and Morris, and Gibson will never sniff the Hall of Fame, and Morris might only get in through generosity of the Veteran's Committee. (Frankly, I think Morris deserves to get in.)

If you think Morris belongs and not Trammell/Whitaker, I simply cannot agree with that.