Buying Slabbed cards...security...or the contrary?

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

With the flood of fake cards on the markets these days...many entombed in fake/altered slabs...is it less reassurance buying a card entombed in a slab...where the card cannot be handled to ascertain authenticity.

Has the system backfired on everyone????

To your question about reassurance, I absolutely feel less secure with graded cards than I did even a year ago. I should be clear that I still think it is a safer route most of the time so I wouldn't swear them off or anything like that. I would probably still not buy a big-ticket item that wasn't graded, in fact. And the fact that I'm not dealing with five-figure cards makes it a little easier on me personally.

But I think it's hard to see things that have gone on with the 52 Mantles and not say it's at least a little unnerving.

[botn]

If by the system you mean the grading/encapsulating process, I would say it has no failed us, though I do believe there are some serious inherent flaws with 3rd party grading today. I think the internet, for the obvious reasons, has done away with card shows. If we relied more on buying cards at shows or in person I doubt there would be as many potential victims. It has never been more important than it is now to really know the reputation of the person you are buying from if you are going to conduct business over the internet.

[Exhibitman]

Greg's right.

I'd ratchet back the overall the sky is falling stuff. For the average items worrying about counterfeit slabbing is pretty much a non-issue. There just aren't counterfeiters going to the trouble of creating a fake that would only sell for $50.

A far more worrisome issue are the artists who can trim a card and get it past the TPGs into a high end holder. I don't collect that market but I do like to purchase nice raw Topps cards from the 1970s at shows, and I've noticed that certain issues have an increased incidence of trimmed cards in otherwise solid dealer inventories. I bought some at the National that looked good at the show but that were subtly trimmed. I figured it out only when I got home. I also weeded out a lot of questionable items at the show just comparing one card to others in the inventory. I suspect that the card trimmers out there are perfecting their techniques on low value cards and then selling their experiments to dealers as part of bulk lots.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by botn

If by the system you mean the grading/encapsulating process, I would say it has no failed us, though I do believe there are some serious inherent flaws with 3rd party grading today. I think the internet, for the obvious reasons, has done away with card shows. If we relied more on buying cards at shows or in person I doubt there would be as many potential victims. It has never been more important than it is now to really know the reputation of the person you are buying from if you are going to conduct business over the internet.

Good point

Just like Insider Trading for the Stock Market, can very well happen for the Card Grading Companies Insider Grading

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

To your question about reassurance, I absolutely feel less secure with graded cards than I did even a year ago. I should be clear that I still think it is a safer route most of the time so I wouldn't swear them off or anything like that. I would probably still not buy a big-ticket item that wasn't graded, in fact. And the fact that I'm not dealing with five-figure cards makes it a little easier on me personally.

But I think it's hard to see things that have gone on with the 52 Mantles and not say it's at least a little unnerving.

I might feel less secure if I were looking for a 52 Mantle because of the possibility that the flip was fake and the holder resealed, but in terms of the far bigger general issue -- altered cards getting by TPGs -- I don't think that much has changed.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I might feel less secure if I were looking for a 52 Mantle because of the possibility that the flip was fake and the holder resealed, but in terms of the far bigger general issue -- altered cards getting by TPGs -- I don't think that much has changed.

Anyone (including me) collecting high grade cards is susceptible. I have to agree that the trimming and alterations issues are probably the biggest problem(s) in the hobby. The holders are getting better but need to keep evolving, so it seems. Also, Beckett is looking a little shinier today with their almost indestructible and virtually impenetrable holders. The other TPGs should take notice. I would hate to buy a high grade and expensive card in a seemingly good holder only to find out something is awry.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A fair amount of PSA's and possibly SGC's business comes from people cracking out and resubmitting, so I am not sure they want to make the holders as indestructible as Beckett's. Until seeing that Goodwin Mantle though, I had thought at least PSA had made a holder that could not be cracked open and then resealed.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A fair amount of PSA's and possibly SGC's business comes from people cracking out and resubmitting, so I am not sure they want to make the holders as indestructible as Beckett's. Until seeing that Goodwin Mantle though, I had thought at least PSA had made a holder that could not be cracked open and then resealed.

So you think the holder has been cracked and resealed on the Goodwin Mantle?

Anybody have any new info on this card/slab?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

So you think the holder has been cracked and resealed on the Goodwin Mantle?

Anybody have any new info on this card/slab?

Unless "they" are now able to fabricate their own holders, that must be the explanation.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Unless "they" are now able to fabricate their own holders, that must be the explanation.

this seems to be the case...not just fake cards...but fake slabs and fake slips.