2016 Hall of Fame Ballot, Who would you vote for?

[Topps206]

Oliva just missed, so did Allen, and I was appalled that Allen was that short.

[cammb]

Richie Allen was a monster. If Im not mistaken, didnt he use a 46 oz bat?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Topps206

Oliva just missed, so did Allen, and I was appalled that Allen was that short.

We seem to agree on several points.

I don't know what it is...something intangible, perhaps. But when I hear a player's name in discussions like this one, I immediately think to myself "Hall of Famer", or "not a Hall of Famer". There are instances where I'm on the fence, and I will use things like statistics, Awards won, MVP/Cy Young vote history to finalize my opinion. But for the most part, it's an overall opinion of a player built over the years. And, I've found that statistics seem to support my opinion.

Jack Morris, to me, is not a Hall of Famer. While he's had several big games, including a couple in the post season, when I consider his body of work taken as a whole, in my opinion, I just don't think the argument for his inclusion is strong enough. Yes, he won over 250 games. Yes, he had five top five Cy Young finishes. He won 20 games three times. But was he ever a truly elite pitcher? His career ERA of 3.90 is really hard to overlook.

His career ERA + is 105. I ran a report on baseball reference for all pitchers (from 1901 to 2015), not currently in the Hall of Fame, that have thrown over 2,000 innings in their career. Jack Morris's ERA + ranks him 176th on this list of 320 pitchers (I used ten seasons at an average of 200 innings pitched as my basis). That being said, Jack Morris isn't even in the top half of all pitchers that qualify. He's behind Johnny Podres, Mike Witt, Tim Wakefield and Danny Darwin. Using ERA + alone may be an oversimplification of a much more complex discussion, but that's the smell test for me. And Morris doesn't come out of this comparison smelling like a rose.

Now, to Dick Allen. Let me say that, in my opinion, Dick Allen's omission from Cooperstown is one of the most glaring in the history of the sport. Again, one metric comparison may be an oversimplification, but in this instance, the results are eye opening.

I ran a report of all hitters with 5,000 or more career at bats, who were not currently in the Hall of Fame. The comparative metric here is career OPS +. Dick Allen has the fourth highest OPS + of all hitters meeting these requirements.

Barry Bonds 182
Mark McGwire 163
Albert Pujols 159
Dick Allen 156
Miguel Cabrera 155
Manny Ramirez 154

Allen's career OPS + is higher than that of Miguel Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, Jeff Bagwell, Jim Thome, Edgar Martinez, Lance Berkman, Albert Belle, Alex Rodriguez and Mike Piazza. Most of these guys are getting serious consideration for induction.

When I include Hall of Famers in the report, Allen's OPS + is sixteenth all-time. Allen's career OPS + is one point higher than that of Hank Aaron, Joe DiMaggio and Mel Ott. Allen has the same career OPS as Willie Mays and Frank Thomas. His OPS + is one point lower than Tris Speaker, two points lower than Hank Greenberg and Johnny Mize, and three points lower than that of Stan Musial.

How the hell is Allen not in the Hall? The guy was simply one of the greatest sluggers to ever play the game.

[packs]

I highly doubt Hoffman will get in any time soon. He was more or less Lee Smith 2.0 and he's not in. He never touched Rivera and I don't think anyone remembers him as a shut down clutch pitcher. He was just a guy who got a lot of saves.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by packs

I highly doubt Hoffman will get in any time soon. He was more or less Lee Smith 2.0 and he's not in. He never touched Rivera and I don't think anyone remembers him as a shut down clutch pitcher. He was just a guy who got a lot of saves.

Hoffman had a lot more accomplishments and better numbers than Lee Smith did.

[packs]

Any way you want to slice it he's not a top tier HOFer and should have some difficulty getting in. He didn't have cache like say Rollie Fingers or Eckersley did and his reputation is pretty bland, unlike say a Goose Gossage.

[bn2cardz]

With 55 public votes in (representing 12.22%) of the vote it is leaning towards three possible candidates being inducted.

Griffey 100% (55)

Piazza having gained 4 votes from returning voters and a vote from all three new voters sits at 89.1% (49)

Bagwell gained 10 returning votes and all three new voters votes is at 81.8% (45)

Tim Rains is worth mentioning as he is the only other candidate with more than 70% of the vote with 74.5% (41). He has gained 5 votes and is supported by the three new voters.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...C7uZHAmcVGWgwE

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

With 55 public votes in (representing 12.22%) of the vote it is leaning towards three possible candidates being inducted.

Griffey 100% (55)

Piazza having gained 4 votes from returning voters and a vote from all three new voters sits at 89.1% (49)

Bagwell gained 10 returning votes and all three new voters votes is at 81.8% (45)

Tim Rains is worth mentioning as he is the only other candidate with more than 70% of the vote with 74.5% (41). He has gained 5 votes and is supported by the three new voters.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...C7uZHAmcVGWgwE

Looks like we might be getting three electees and if not four then Raines is a slam dunk for 2017.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by packs

Any way you want to slice it he's not a top tier HOFer and should have some difficulty getting in. He didn't have cache like say Rollie Fingers or Eckersley did and his reputation is pretty bland, unlike say a Goose Gossage.

What specifically do you mean by cache and substance?

[packs]

Fingers won 3 world series in a row and was WS MVP, along with CY and MVP during the regular season. Eckersley was CY and MVP as well. Gossage was a feared reliever and a colorful character his whole career and a WS champion.

Hoffman was......a guy who got a lot of saves and never won anything.