A word concerning board friendliness

[nolemmings]

Censorship is dangerous--I'm not a fan.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Censorship is dangerous--I'm not a fan.

Agreed

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Censorship is dangerous--I'm not a fan.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I can understand Leon's point to a certain extent, in that innocent hobbyists shouldn't be harassed on a continuous basis. But, that's not what I've seen on this forum. Generally speaking, the posters/dealers/advertisers/auction houses, etc. that receive the snarky comments are the ones that have the problematic issues that continually need to be addressed in order for the hobby & this network of collectors to move forward in a positive way.

By banning longtime posters that disagree with the owner of the forum, I'm afraid we are falling into the PC, don't hurt anyone's feelings, type of discussions.

This forum is by far the best when it comes to pre-war baseball hobby discussions, but I'm starting to think the banishments have become personal, not professional (business). If I'm not mistaken, this forum used to be a place to discuss all aspects of the baseball collecting world. Then it was turned into a business at some point (which is fine by me), but when it becomes a business, you have to begin to set aside the personal issues. I'm a small business owner & if I started banning all the clients that weren't nice to me or that I didn't like, or that offended me, I would lose a small, but important, part of my clientele.

Jeremy W@goner

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I can understand Leon's point to a certain extent, in that innocent hobbyists shouldn't be harassed on a continuous basis. But, that's not what I've seen on this forum. Generally speaking, the posters/dealers/advertisers/auction houses, etc. that receive the snarky comments are the ones that have the problematic issues that continually need to be addressed in order for the hobby & this network of collectors to move forward in a positive way.

By banning longtime posters that disagree with the owner of the forum, I'm afraid we are falling into the PC, don't hurt anyone's feelings, type of discussions.

This forum is by far the best when it comes to pre-war baseball hobby discussions, but I'm starting to think the banishments have become personal, not professional (business). If I'm not mistaken, this forum used to be a place to discuss all aspects of the baseball collecting world. Then it was turned into a business at some point (which is fine by me), but when it becomes a business, you have to begin to set aside the personal issues. I'm a small business owner & if I started banning all the clients that weren't nice to me or that I didn't like, or that offended me, I would lose a small, but important, part of my clientele.

Jeremy W@goner

One of the four banned will probably be let back soon if he wants to come back. I probably cast too wide of a net. I have needed to take some steps on the board and the ones recently are good in my opinion. Others will definitely disagree. I also agree that censorship, in general, is not a good thing. However, somtimes when you are part of a community then you have to give up a few rights to be a part of it. One right they had to give up was the act of continuing to badger me. Three of the four were culprits in my opinion. And lastly, this isn't a business it's a job. Trust me. If I take a cut in pay because of my actions I am fine with it.

[JeremyW]

Leon- Were the banishments professional or personal decisions? Honestly speaking, it appears to be a personal thing to me. I might be in the minority here, but banning the guys you did, hurts the forum for me. You might be fine with the pay cut, but eventually it will catch up with you. Again, that's only my opinion. Jeremy

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Leon- Were the banishments professional or personal decisions? Honestly speaking, it appears to be a personal thing to me. I might be in the minority here, but banning the guys you did, hurts the forum for me. You might be fine with the pay cut, but eventually it will catch up with you. Again, that's only my opinion. Jeremy

It was personal in as much as they were badgering me. I am sorry it hurts the forum for you but it will help the forum for others (and me).

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Leon- Were the banishments professional or personal decisions? Honestly speaking, it appears to be a personal thing to me. I might be in the minority here, but banning the guys you did, hurts the forum for me. You might be fine with the pay cut, but eventually it will catch up with you. Again, that's only my opinion. Jeremy

I'm in the minority as well, Jeremy. It hurts the forum for me as well and I bet we are not alone. I thought Jeff and John(not sure who the others banned are) contributed greatly to the board.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I'm in the minority as well, Jeremy. It hurts the forum for me as well and I bet we are not alone. I thought Jeff and John(not sure who the others banned are) contributed greatly to the board.

Same here. I am glad Jeff is back and I hope John returns soon as well.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Same here. I am glad Jeff is back and I hope John returns soon as well.

Maybe the new owners will let him back in.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=39919#more-39919

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Leon

One of the four banned will probably be let back soon if he wants to come back. I probably cast too wide of a net. I have needed to take some steps on the board and the ones recently are good in my opinion. Others will definitely disagree. I also agree that censorship, in general, is not a good thing. However, somtimes when you are part of a community then you have to give up a few rights to be a part of it. One right they had to give up was the act of continuing to badger me. Three of the four were culprits in my opinion. And lastly, this isn't a business it's a job. Trust me. If I take a cut in pay because of my actions I am fine with it.

In reflection I don't think Jeff should have been suspended/banned for what he said. He is now back. That being said I still really want the board to be a more friendly place. I will continue to take steps to make that happen.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by Leon

That being said I still really want the board to be a more friendly place. I will continue to take steps to make that happen.

Agree and thanks.

[ramram]

Leon was not "elected". He can do as he wishes. If people don't like it, they can move on. That's the democratic part of the equation. Leon has shown plenty of restraint through the years but it's time to get the message out that everybody is welcome - just don't start being an a**hole.

Rob M.

[JeremyW]

Rob- I agree with everything you said, besides the democratic part. Leon has shown much restraint, but it's more of a dictatorship than democracy.

[ramram]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Rob- I agree with everything you said, besides the democratic part. Leon has shown much restraint, but it's more of a dictatorship than democracy.

My subdivision has rules to abide by just like this forum. If you don't abide by those rules you pay the price. It's for the betterment of all that reside within that space. Much like it is here. It's not about being a democracy on here, it's about decency. I've been a member on here for probably 20 years and one of the original "good guys" doesn't even post on here anymore because of the personal abuse. I would rather read his posts all day long rather than reading abusive posts directed at him and others.

Rob M.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Censorship is dangerous--I'm not a fan.

In principle, yes, but in my experience this has been one of the most open boards in the hobby. It's next closest competitor (even that's even the right word) deletes threads on a daily basis if a business partner is named at all while at the same time letting havoc run wild unabated.

[pokerplyr80]

My opinion is that as the owner of this forum Leon is free to do as he pleases. We don't pay to belong to his forum. If someone walked into any business and started arguing with the owner, right or wrong, there is a good chance he would be asked not to return.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

If you're looking at this forum comparing it to a business, there are many current studies that recommend firing your worst customers (bottom 10%) because they create the most headaches and take up a much larger percentage of your time which is unprofitable.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

If you're looking at this forum comparing it to a business, there are many current studies that recommend firing your worst customers (bottom 10%) because they create the most headaches and take up a much larger percentage of your time which is unprofitable.

I think Ebay did that where the bottom 5% attributed to 80% of their problems.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

If you're looking at this forum comparing it to a business, there are many current studies that recommend firing your worst customers (bottom 10%) because they create the most headaches and take up a much larger percentage of your time which is unprofitable.

That is a really good point. I recently fired a profitable but utterly impossible client. 10% of my revenue but 89% of my a-holes.

[obcbobd]

Thanks Leon! I appreciate all your efforts in keeping this a more Civil Board

Bob Donaldson (I shouldn't have to sign, because I don't think that was a controversial statement, but I will anyways!)

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Thanks Leon! I appreciate all your efforts in keeping this a more Civil Board

+1 Much better than alternatives.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Censorship is dangerous--I'm not a fan.

Agree with you to a point. I always understood Net54 to be a place to go and discuss, share, and on occasion, to point out issues concerning a hobby gone positively and absolutely mad, our passion for collecting. In many cases it is a way of life - baseball certainly was when I was much younger- and, for guys like Leon - hello, Leon! - a way to make a living. And most certainly, the elephant in the room is money. And all the.... Uh, stuff in this hobby that comes with it.

I have personally avoided participation recently as I noticed the board turning ugly, IMHO. Several recent threads turned into feeding frenzies. Really a turn off for me. Gotta be honest here, if I wanted confrontation, I'd move back to L A.

Keep it real, but keep it civil. Funny works, too.

By the way, I sold my T206 set recently at auction and have yet to regret it. Too much. I kept a hundred or so dupes, mostly lower condition and ungraded. There is something charming about a beater that speaks to the human condition, at least to me. Human creation, artistry, inventiveness, frailty, time and entropy, the celebration of sport, achievement, a life well lived and honored with a piece of mishandled cardboard by ten year olds. As Tom Waits has said, I don't wanna grow up.

Peace

Keith Temple

[sportscardpete]

The board benefits from a combination of newer collectors and the "old, grizzly" vets. And just like life the older vets (in any industry) might be more opinionated or difficult to deal with.

So, not to side with anyone on who should/shouldn't be banned, but the less vets we have on the board the worse off it is for the newer collectors.

[Jeff_cvc]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Agree with you to a point. I always understood Net54 to be a place to go and discuss, share, and on occasion, to point out issues concerning a hobby gone positively and absolutely mad, our passion for collecting. In many cases it is a way of life - baseball certainly was when I was much younger- and, for guys like Leon - hello, Leon! - a way to make a living. And most certainly, the elephant in the room is money. And all the.... Uh, stuff in this hobby that comes with it.

I have personally avoided participation recently as I noticed the board turning ugly, IMHO. Several recent threads turned into feeding frenzies. Really a turn off for me. Gotta be honest here, if I wanted confrontation, I'd move back to L A.

Keep it real, but keep it civil. Funny works, too.

By the way, I sold my T206 set recently at auction and have yet to regret it. Too much. I kept a hundred or so dupes, mostly lower condition and ungraded. There is something charming about a beater that speaks to the human condition, at least to me. Human creation, artistry, inventiveness, frailty, time and entropy, the celebration of sport, achievement, a life well lived and honored with a piece of mishandled cardboard by ten year olds. As Tom Waits has said, I don't wanna grow up.

Peace

Keith Temple

Keith, I really appreciate your approach about the board and the charm of a beater ++++1