Football Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Collection

[Publius]

Originally Posted by clamendo

I believe that this 1908 RPPC of the Carlisle Indian Football team which includes Thorpe his Pre-rookie. I've been looking for such a piece for a long time and was able to snag it in the Hunt Super Bowl auction. I believe someday I will sell it to one of the Indian Casinos in the Northeast and they will proudly display it. I know Thorpe's image is small, but it's the real deal.
]

Carl, so I guess Ill call this 1907 RPPC of the Carlisle team I have with Thopre in in his Pre, Pre-rooke

[clamendo]

Yes! Very Nice, but no Pop Warner. I like them both because he is at least in a football uniform. I think 1907 was his first year. I think these are "cornerstone" pieces to any collection. They just didn't make one,... I wonder how many, if anymore survived!!


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[jefferyepayne]

Awesome Thorpe RPPC's Carl and Joe! Those are really cool items.

Pre-pre-per-pre rookie

jeff

[argpdt]

I started collecting NFL HOF rookie cards about 10 years ago, with the goal to get the "official" rookie or the oldest card I could afford from the player's playing days. Some official rookies are from 1974/75 Fleer HOF, 1955 Topps All American, etc. I currently have 275 of the 293 HOF rookie cards available, that meet my standard for rookie. I would love to acquire the 1933 Diamond Matchbooks of Badgro, Battles, Edwards, Flaherty, Hein, Herber, Hewitt, Hinkle, Hubbard, and Nagurski.
The only inductee that I don't have anything of is George Wilson (Rookie: 1960 Bills Team Issue).

[bcbgcbrcb]

Andrew:

There's a George Wilson in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

[S_GERACE]

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he means Ralph Wilson. Just a guess.

Good luck on your quest Andrew!

[TanksAndSpartans]

nm - wrong player - thought I knew who this was.

[clamendo]

Just for your reference ...here is the "tough" Ralph Wilson" 1960 Buffalo Bills Team Issue Photo and the envelope as an added bonus. Not many have survived.




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[Dan Carson]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I completely agree, Carl. To me its silly to call a 1988 Arnie Herber his rookie card. I believe the rookie card phenomenon is a manifestation of two things:

1) It seems to have always been the unwritten rule that a rookie card has to come from a "mainstream" set that was distributed nationally if at all possible. I'm not sure if this rule was pushed by Topps and other card manufacturers or came from dealers wanting to make sure they had plenty of rookie cards to sell.

2) The grading companies would never advocate that rookie cards be designated in scarce sets like Star Player Candy as then hardly anyone would work on a HOF registry set as completing it would be pretty much hopeless and hopeless equals less grading fees for them!

Either way it is clear that the driver behind rookie card designations is $$$$, not what is truly the players first card.

I'm very content to focus on trying to get "pre-rookie" cards of HOFers from the scarce sets you mention even if these cards aren't designated as rookie cards. I agree its a lot more fun chasing those but don't begrudge anyone who wants to try and complete an official rookie card set ... that's still a tall task!

jeff

+1

[S_GERACE]

Haven't posted in awhile. Here are some of my iconic RC's.

[Jdoggs]

Nice centering on Namath psa 6.5 rookie.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Is this one iconic? I actually voted for this when PSA did the Mount Rushmore of football cards. HOFer, popular set, from a rare series. And aesthetically, there's just something I like about that Penn uniform. The Met made a comment about the use of primary colors when they put Burdick's collection on display for the SB - it made me think of this card:

[S_GERACE]

Thanks for the comment on the Namath. It's one of my favorites. I equate it to the 1952 Topps Mantle version of football cards. Short print from a popular set, charismatic NY star and unrealized potential due to injury (what-if mystique).

Hi John,
I don't know if I would consider the 1948 Leaf Bednarik to be an iconic card. I don't mean that as a slight to the card at all. I don't even own one...yet (nice copy by the way). I think it's totally undervalued but I don't consider Bednarik to be on the same plane as Baugh with respect to legacy and historical significance. It is a great set & great player but you could also make a case for the Luckman being an iconic card as well. At some point I think you have to make a cutoff and I just stopped at Baugh.

Also, what I posted isn't an all-inclusive list of "iconic" cards, just some that I chose (my favorites).

[DBesse27]

Wow, what a bunch of great cards!!

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Scott - it's an interesting discussion. I'm probably biased towards the 48 Leaf Bednarik because it's the first vintage card I ever bid on (I actually thought it meant something that I was leading the auction with 5 days to go - I was pretty clueless). I agree the 48 Leaf Baugh is iconic, but it wasn't on CU's radar. I think the 35 Nags and 65 Namath are pretty much no-brainers. Their last two were 57 Unitas and 58 Brown:

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...football-cards

I like the idea of including 57 Topps because I think its an iconic set, but an argument could have been made for the Starr too. I get including Jim Brown, but as far as the card goes - there's no rarity component and the "keyhole" set isn't particular attractive in my opinion. I'd take the 33 Goudey Grange over that one which wasn't in the discussion at all. But, the 81 Montana was in the discussion - I didn't really get that one either except fans who never heard of Friedman, Baugh, Graham, Luckman, etc. all think Montana is the goat (unless they only remember as far back as Brady and Manning, then its one of those two). And finally, there was one guy who voted for the Steve Largent rookie - no idea who that could have been

[DBesse27]

Before:



After:

[S_GERACE]

Hi John,
I would select the same four that CU did for my Mt. Rushmore (interesting article by the way, thanks). The Brown isn't necessarily the toughest card to find but the black front is very susceptible to surface wear and the image is usually very blurry. I had several PSA 7's that were centered better than mine but suffered from either one or both of these problems. Eventually I decided to be more lenient on centering and look for a card that had a better image and less surface wear.

As for Bednarik, when you look at the rest of his cards in the price guides none stand out from other HoFers (1952 Bowman Large SP the exception) the way that the cards of Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Brown,etc...do. Bednarik's cards book for roughly the same amounts as Hirsch, Perry, Groza, Nomellini,etc...

That does not mean that things cannot change over time. When I was young and first collecting the NC Rockne and 1952 B Large Gifford would have made the Mt. Rushmore. At one point the Rockne was worth almost as much as the rest of the NC set (less Nags). Now, I would take just a Clark & Hinkle over a Rockne in similar condition. The Bednarik is a VERY tough card, especially centered, and it wouldn't shock me a bit that if we had this conversation sometime in the future that the Bednarik was right up there. Look at the 1948 L Satchel Paige. In the late 70's & early 80's the 1949 Bowman Paige was actually worth a little more. Now it's not even close. People come out of the woodwork when a 1948 Leaf Paige makes an appearance!



Nice Hannah auto DeBesse! How many HoF autos do you have? I'd love to do something like that but don't know enough about autos & would probably wind up w/ a bunch of forgeries. I would love to do it on 3x5 index cards.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Scott - glad you liked the article. I should have posted something here when the voting for the 4th spot was still active. Interesting observation about Clark and Hinkle relative to Rockne in the 35 Chicle set - I bet it could have been the HOF rookie set driving that. My own limited experience has been the 48 Leaf set is really popular, so I guess I wanted a card in the big four - I’d definitely have no problem with Baugh in there. And then from the point of view of NFL history - we have cards period cards of Red Grange, Benny Friedman, and Paddy Driscoll - to me those are all under appreciated. What about the Mt. Rushmore of sets? Chicle, 48 Leaf, 52 Bowman Large, and 57 Topps?

[DBesse27]

Hi Scott, I only have a few HOF autos and that's my only one on a HOF RC. I am a player collector and in football I collect Andre Tippett, Gino Cappelletti and John Hannah cards.

[S_GERACE]

Hi John,
I would choose the same four sets that you listed for the Mt. Rushmore of sets & I agree about some of the players in older, rarer sets being underrated, particularly those of Grange. I think that a lot of people aren't aware of some of the older rare issues. I really didn't see that kind of stuff (and wasn't aware of it) until I started looking at Net54 and seeing the posts of Jeff Payne, clamendo, revmoran, pubilus, etc...I think that they would slap me in the face if I ever got a look at their collections because I would drool all over their cards!

Below is a scan from the 1983 Beckett that illustrated my point about the Rockne. It used to be worth the same amount as the Nags!

DeBesse,
Was it you that had the Hannah Alabama playing card (as well as Bear Bryant)? If so, how did you make out with the PSA grades on those? They were pretty cool!

[DBesse27]

Thanks, those were mine. The Hannah and Bryant were both shipped to PSA at the end of October and were logged in last week. It's a 50 biz day special, so I doubt I'll get grades before 2016. I'll be sure to post them when I do.

[revmoran]

Originally Posted by S_GERACE

Hi John,
I would choose the same four sets that you listed for the Mt. Rushmore of sets & I agree about some of the players in older, rarer sets being underrated, particularly those of Grange. I think that a lot of people aren't aware of some of the older rare issues. I really didn't see that kind of stuff (and wasn't aware of it) until I started looking at Net54 and seeing the posts of Jeff Payne, clamendo, revmoran, pubilus, etc...I think that they would slap me in the face if I ever got a look at their collections because I would drool all over their cards!

Below is a scan from the 1983 Beckett that illustrated my point about the Rockne. It used to be worth the same amount as the Nags!

DeBesse,
Was it you that had the Hannah Alabama playing card (as well as Bear Bryant)? If so, how did you make out with the PSA grades on those? They were pretty cool!

Look at price on the Tosi in there - that has certainly gained value.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Scott and Mike - appreciate the discussion! I love the 83 Beckett Chicle price guide - Scott, thanks for posting.

Tosi prices are really interesting - I don't think anyone thinks there were less Tosi cards issued than the other high numbers and I don't think anyone thinks we have a Tosi hoarder. The logical explanation is that it's a condition sensitive card and the shortage of high end examples has caused even the low end examples to become more expensive so that collectors can finish their sets. I don't think I'd auction a mid-grade Tosi right now though - too many midgrade Chicles auctioning off low - Tosi may come back to the pack with Dell Isola and the others eventually.....

[Exhibitman]

Reviving this thread to ask about team issues. I haven't seen a lot of discussion of them as RCs, but seems to me that if a team issues the item it should be in the mix. Here's a 1958 Cleveland Browns TI:



Also regionals. I am content calling this a RC:

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Don't forget about the 1926 Shotwell sets. They would be earlier than the 1928 Star Player Candy Grange.

Here you go:

Spalding


W590


Shotwell


jeff

1926 Amatller



These are also approx 1926 cards: