Records

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Brown had a 1.04 in 1906.

Dead ball era, apples and oranges. Compare Gibson's 1.12 to the next best ERA since, say, 1920. I think the next best is probably Maddux at something like 1.60. Gooden had something close too I think. In any case that's a huge gap.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dead ball era, apples and oranges. Compare Gibson's 1.12 to the next best ERA since, say, 1920. I think the next best is probably Maddux at something like 1.60. Gooden had something close too I think. In any case that's a huge gap.

Not apples and oranges. They're both in the "modern era" of baseball. In fact, they changed pitching rules in 1969, the year after Gibson's 1.12, because of the favorable pitching conditions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Disagree. There are numerous seasons by all sorts of pitchers pre-1920 with ERAs in the 1.1s, 1.2s, etc. That all changes after 1920 or so. Gibson's season, in context, cannot be compared to Brown's.


Rank

Player (age that year)

Earned Run Average

Year

Throws


1. Tim Keefe+ (23) 0.857 1880 R
2. Dutch Leonard (22) 0.961 1914 L
3. Mordecai Brown+ (29) 1.038 1906 R
4. Bob Gibson+ (32) 1.123 1968 R
5. Christy Mathewson+ (28) 1.144 1909 R
6. Walter Johnson+ (25) 1.145 1913 R
7. Jack Pfiester (29) 1.154 1907 L
8. Addie Joss+ (28) 1.163 1908 R
9. Carl Lundgren (27) 1.174 1907 R
10. Denny Driscoll (26) 1.209 1882 L
11. Pete Alexander+ (28) 1.220 1915 R
12. George Bradley (23) 1.225 1876 R
13. Cy Young+ (41) 1.264 1908 R
14. Ed Walsh+ (29) 1.266 1910 R
15. Walter Johnson+ (30) 1.270 1918 R
16. Christy Mathewson+ (24) 1.276 1905 R
17. Jack Taylor (28) 1.295 1902 R
18. Guy Hecker (26) 1.298 1882 R
19. Jack Coombs (27) 1.300 1910 R
20. Mordecai Brown+ (32) 1.313 1909 R
21. Walter Johnson+ (22) 1.362 1910 R
22. George Bradley (27) 1.378 1880 R
23. Old Hoss Radbourn+ (29) 1.379 1884 R
24. Walter Johnson+ (24) 1.390 1912 R
25. Mordecai Brown+ (30) 1.391 1907 R
26. Harry Krause (20) 1.394 1909 L
27. Ed Walsh+ (28) 1.407 1909 R
28. Ed Walsh+ (27) 1.416 1908 R
29. Ed Reulbach (22) 1.419 1905 R
30. Orval Overall (28) 1.421 1909 R
31. Christy Mathewson+ (27) 1.428 1908 R
32. Fred Anderson (31) 1.444 1917 R
33. Mordecai Brown+ (31) 1.470 1908 R
34. Rube Waddell+ (28) 1.479 1905 L
35. Smoky Joe Wood (25) 1.487 1915 R
36. Walter Johnson+ (31) 1.488 1919 R
37. Jack Pfiester (28) 1.508 1906 L
38. John Ward+ (18) 1.509 1878 R
39. Harry McCormick (26) 1.516 1882 R
40. Doc White (27) 1.518 1906 L
41. George McQuillan (23) 1.526 1908 R
42. Dwight Gooden (20) 1.529 1985 R
43. Eddie Cicotte (33) 1.532 1917 R
44. Will White (27) 1.538 1882 R
45. Cy Morgan (31) 1.548 1910 R
46. Pete Alexander+ (29) 1.550 1916 R
Walter Johnson+ (27) 1.550 1915 R
48. Howie Camnitz (26) 1.559 1908 R
Greg Maddux+ (28) 1.559 1994 R
50. Jim Devlin (27) 1.563 1876 R


Rank

Player (age that year)

Earned Run Average

Year

Throws


51. Tim Keefe+ (28) 1.575 1885 R
52. Fred Toney (26) 1.576 1915 R
53. Eddie Cicotte (29) 1.578 1913 R
54. Rube Marquard+ (29) 1.580 1916 L
55. Chief Bender+ (26) 1.584 1910 R
56. Barney Pelty (25) 1.588 1906 R
57. Addie Joss+ (24) 1.591 1904 R
58. Ed Walsh+ (26) 1.598 1907 R
59. Luis Tiant (27) 1.603 1968 R
60. Joe McGinnity+ (33) 1.610 1904

[PolarBear]

Regardless, Gibson's 1.12 isn't one of the greatest sports records ever. Maybe he would have had a 1.00 in the "dead ball era". Maybe Maddox would have had a 1.10 in 1968 before the pitching rule changes. We'll never know. Which is why Gibson's record, while impressive in it's own right, doesn't hold up as an undisputed greatest ever record.

[cubsfan-budman]

the only ones up there that will never be broken are cy young's and (probably) gretsky's. cy youngs are absolutely unattainable because of how the game is played now...and will be as long as big money is involved. gretsky's because he is the greatest...odd to have another like him.

[CharleyBrown]

How about Old Hoss Radbourn's 59 wins in a season?

[HRBAKER]

How about 107 years without a championship?

[dabigyankeeman]

I think two separate lists need to be made, I dont feel you can compare individual season feats with career stats.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown

How about Old Hoss Radbourn's 59 wins in a season?

This is at the top of my list for the next baseball book I get.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

the only ones up there that will never be broken are cy young's and (probably) gretsky's. cy youngs are absolutely unattainable because of how the game is played now...and will be as long as big money is involved. gretsky's because he is the greatest...odd to have another like him.

I think Wilt's 100 pt game is pretty unbreakable, as is the 50 PPG. I don't see Dimaggio's hit streak ever getting broken, although it's not as completely impossible as cy young's records.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I think Wilt's 100 pt game is pretty unbreakable, as is the 50 PPG. I don't see Dimaggio's hit streak ever getting broken, although it's not as completely impossible as cy young's records.

100 pt game? Didnt Kobe score 87 or something a few years back?