OT: Who would you put on your sports Mt. Rushmore. This is harder than it sounds...

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

looking at manning I saw and still see a guy who not only is a grate player but makes his whole team that much better. If im not mistaken the season he was out with injury his team that finished 10-6 previous season, went 2-10 without him then when he came back went 11-5.

A quick comparison to bradyin 2008 they went 11-5 with brady out for the season and mat cassell in at QB. That team was solid and with a great coach. Manning was the whole team more often than not

I'm not saying that Manning wasn't a great quarterback. Far from it. I would be hard pressed to come up with a top 5 list of all-time quarterbacks, and not have him in it. But one thing needs to be kept in mind about Manning. He played at least half of his games indoors, every year. From 1998-2001, he played at least 8 games at the RCA Dome. From 2002-2010, he played at least 9 of his 16 games every year indoors (with an away game at Houston every season). That was a huge advantage as far as passing statistics are concerned. No wind. No precipitation whatsoever. No cold hands to drop passes. He played a majority of his games in a climate controlled dome. Now, these numbers aren't exactly indicative of his home/road splits while in Indianapolis (because he's now played a few seasons at Denver), but his career QB rating at home is 100.6, and it's 93.4 on the road. Still excellent in both places, and his 96.9 QB rating is the third highest of all-time. But he clearly benefited from playing in perfect conditions. Compare his numbers to those of Aaron Rodgers. Yes, the rules have changed even more in favor of offense in recent years-that's why it's hard, in my humble opinion, to compare great passers from different eras. But if you look at what Rodgers has done in Green Bay, it's mind boggling. He has a 106.3 career QB rating, and he will usually play 3 games each year indoors (Detroit, Minnesota, and at least one non-divisional opponent like Atlanta, or St. Louis). But his career QB rating--away from Lambeau, which is supposed to be this huge advantage, is 100.2. He has thrown 108 TD passes and only 35 INTs. If you took away all of his home game statistics, and took only his numbers from the road, he'd still be the highest rated QB in NFL history.

Why am I gushing about Rodgers? I'm trying to reinforce how hard it is to extrapolate a few numbers, and pick "the best" in any sport, especially football where there are only 16 games a season. Do I think Rodgers is the best passer in NFL history? It's hard to say, though he belongs in the conversation, as is a first ballot Hall of Famer if he retired today. But do I look at the career passer rating list, and say that Dan Marino is the 19th best quarterback to ever play the game? Is Joe Montana 10th best? Bart Starr is tied for 56th, and Johnny Unitas 77th best.

While Manning has put up some huge numbers, I think the guys I just named, had they played in today's NFL, would have put up the same eye popping numbers, if not better.

[jcmtiger]

Ty Cobb, Ali, Gordie Howe and Jim Brown

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

He has a 106.3 career QB rating, and he will usually play 3 games each year indoors (Detroit, Minnesota, and at least one non-divisional opponent like Atlanta, or St. Louis).

Hey, we played outdoors here last year and this year, didn't you see how awesome Blair Walsh is kicking outdoors?

It's not that Manning had HOF receivers and Favre didn't. Manning made them HOF receivers. Just like Brady made Welker one.


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[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

It's not that Manning had HOF receivers and Favre didn't. Manning made them HOF receivers. Just like Brady made Welker one.


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Oh, please. You're grasping at straws. We could say that about every great wide receiver that's ever played the game.

Joe Montana and Steve Young made Jerry Rice a Hall of Famer.

By the way, Reggie Wayne, at age 34, had 106 catches for 1,355 yards in 2012 after Manning was already gone.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Oh, please. You're grasping at straws. We could say that about every great wide receiver that's ever played the game.



Joe Montana and Steve Young made Jerry Rice a Hall of Famer.



By the way, Reggie Wayne, at age 34, had 106 catches for 1,355 yards in 2012 after Manning was already gone.

Don't kid yourself. You could say that, but you would be wrong. Some receivers are made from the system they are in. That's why Welker was a flop everywhere until he went to the Pats.

Harrison was nothing special and did nothing before Manning. And please, one season. What did Wayne do in 2011? 2013? 2014? And where is he now?


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[Peter_Spaeth]

Welker played all of three seasons pre Pats and the third one had 67 receptions for a 10 yard average. And all but one game was for Miami (flop "everywhere" lol). You are just spouting nonsense for the hell of it, it seems.

You want an interesting stat on Welker, look at the decline in production going from Brady to the great Manning.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Welker played all of three seasons pre Pats and the third one had 67 receptions for a 10 yard average. You are just spouting nonsense for the hell of it, it seems.

Nonsense? You just do not get it do you or you don't know what you're talking about, it seems. I'll go with you don't know what you're talking about, in terms of football.

Didn't realize this was so difficult for you to comprehend. So Welker being cut and limited to special teams in the early part of his career doesn't mean anything to you? Hmmmm I wonder if it's because he didn't have a good quarter back...or a good system...or coaches...sure as hell looks that way if you look up 2007, first year with the Pats.

I'm done with this thread.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

What don't you understand? By his third season, very early in his career, he had 67 receptions and a very respectable 10 yard average, similar to the rest of his career. ON MIAMI. Sorry the facts don't fit your narrative.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You want an interesting stat on Welker, look at the decline in production going from Brady to the great Manning.

Just stop talking, you're making yourself look like an idiot with things you don't know.

2013: you have DT as your number 1, not Welker. He had a smaller role. Welker scored more TD'S in that one year than he ever did with the great Tom Brady for a single season. Interesting to say the least.

2014: Idk, maybe if you knew what you were talking about you would have known he had concussion problems.



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