OT: Who would you put on your sports Mt. Rushmore. This is harder than it sounds...

[jason.1969]

How about Greg Brock, Todd Van Poppel, Ben McDonald, and Brien Taylor?

Get it? We're carving busts of athletes into a mountain. Busts!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

How about Greg Brock, Todd Van Poppel, Ben McDonald, and Brien Taylor?

Get it? We're carving busts of athletes into a mountain. Busts!

Then you missed Mark Lewis. I still have a stack of his cards.

[Rookiemonster]

Ruth did not face any good pitchers he face the same guys over and over . The only pitcher he faced was lefty grove . The pitchers he face were worn down over worked and were not the best of the best . Because it was only whites in baseball .

Mays faced the best pitchers of all time Koufax , Gibson , Spahn , drysdale Etc
He played in the polo grounds . , seal stadium , candlestick the biggest and windiest park in the majors you can't say Ruth would have any better success . He faced racism . He have prime years to the Koreanwar efforts . Ruth could not field even a quarter the mays could . Run or steal bases I don't think there is any argument there that mays was the man . Bottom line mays was the best there was . Or at very least nothing to laugh at .

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Ruth did not face any good pitchers he face the same guys over and over . The only pitcher he faced was lefty grove . The pitchers he face were worn down over worked and were not the best of the best . Because it was only whites in baseball .

Mays faced the best pitchers of all time Koufax , Gibson , Spahn , drysdale Etc
He played in the polo grounds . , seal stadium , candlestick the biggest and windiest park in the majors you can't say Ruth would have any better success . He faced racism . He have prime years to the Koreanwar efforts . Ruth could not field even a quarter the mays could . Run or steal bases I don't think there is any argument there that mays was the man . Bottom line mays was the best there was . Or at very least nothing to laugh at .

These are great points. As freakish as the Babe's numbers were and as genuine as his talent was, I have to imagine Mays would have dominated that same era even more.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Ruth did not face any good pitchers he face the same guys over and over . The only pitcher he faced was lefty grove . The pitchers he face were worn down over worked and were not the best of the best . Because it was only whites in baseball .

Mays faced the best pitchers of all time Koufax , Gibson , Spahn , drysdale Etc
He played in the polo grounds . , seal stadium , candlestick the biggest and windiest park in the majors you can't say Ruth would have any better success . He faced racism . He have prime years to the Koreanwar efforts . Ruth could not field even a quarter the mays could . Run or steal bases I don't think there is any argument there that mays was the man . Bottom line mays was the best there was . Or at very least nothing to laugh at .

It's pointless to compare player eras. The best argument you have with that is Mays would have been as good a hitter as Ruth in the 1920's or Ruth would have lost 50 batting average points and 100 home runs playing in the 50's. Doubtful on both counts. (and by the way, you conveniently left out the fact that Ruth faced Johnson, the BEST pitcher in MLB history).

Was Mays faster than Ruth? I'm sure he was. How much did that really matter though. Not much. Mays had 338 stolen bases, 120th place on the career list, right ahead of Joe Tinker. Mays wasn't exactly a superstar threat on the base paths.

However, you're forgetting my main point about Ruth. Like I said, when Mays coughs up 100 wins as an MLB pitcher, we can discuss how he's a better overall player than Ruth.

I'm not saying Mays wasn't a great player, even a top tier HOFer. I'm just saying that Mays, or anyone else, can't come close to Ruth as the best overall player in MLB history. Ruth was good at everything, not just chasing down fly balls in the outfield.

[Touch'EmAll]

Babe Ruth - was the best at what he did, hit home runs
Nolan Ryan - was the best at what he did, throw fastest and strikeouts
Satchel Paige - My wild card, who really knows the wonders of Paige
Michael Phelps - was the best at what he did - win Olympic Gold

[Rookiemonster]

Ruth was not good at running bases or fielding if there was a gold glove award he would not have won 1 . Walter Johnson was already 31 years old in 1919 . And it is not pointless to compare eras . He only played against whites and it wasn't even the best white players because most didn't want to play ball because there was no money to be made . I think mays in the 20s in Yankee stadium would have Put the most ridiculous numbers ever . Even if mays was not the best he sure was close as we will ever get .

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Ruth was not good at running bases or fielding if there was a gold glove award he would not have won 1 . Walter Johnson was already 31 years old in 1919 . And it is not pointless to compare eras . He only played against whites and it wasn't even the best white players because most didn't want to play ball because there was no money to be made . I think mays in the 20s in Yankee stadium would have Put the most ridiculous numbers ever . Even if mays was not the best he sure was close as we will ever get .

I'm really not trying to argue just for the sake of arguing but you keep ignoring my main point. Does Mays have 100 pitching wins? He doesn't. Until he does, he's not even in the same room as Ruth.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Ruth was not good at running bases or fielding if there was a gold glove award he would not have won 1 . Walter Johnson was already 31 years old in 1919 . And it is not pointless to compare eras . He only played against whites and it wasn't even the best white players because most didn't want to play ball because there was no money to be made . I think mays in the 20s in Yankee stadium would have Put the most ridiculous numbers ever . Even if mays was not the best he sure was close as we will ever get .

No money to be made? Babe Ruth made more than the President of the United States. Players didn't make what they do today, but stars made a lot more than the average person. Ruth's peak salary of 80k was more than most players of the 50's and 60s, so by your logic, Mays didn’t play against the best players either, because salaries were nothing like they are today.

[mark evans]

There is some arbitrariness here as each of us has his preferred sports, and hard to calculate and consider both performance and public impact.

Ruth
Ali
Jordan
Palmer


Long second tier: Mays, J. Robinson, Jim Brown, Wilt, Kareem, Serena, Gretzky, Nicklaus (better than Palmer but Arnie's timing more impactful)

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

And it is not pointless to compare eras . He only played against whites and it wasn't even the best white players because most didn't want to play ball because there was no money to be made .

This statement struck me as biased nonsense and to confirm, I did a few google searches on average laborer wages in the 1920's and compared it to average baseball salaries.

The average laborer was lucky to make $1000 a year, and often much less than that, as low as $300 a year. Henry Ford's unheard of wage of $5 a day was only $1250 a year.

The average baseball player made 5-10x the wage of the average laborer. I have no doubt the best white baseball players were actually playing MLB baseball in the 1920's.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Being a hopeless baseball fan, all four of my representatives are baseball players:

Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Roberto Clemente
Ted Williams

(Sorry Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle and Ty Cobb)

[robw1959]

Here's an interesting fact: In a span of 25 years, modern statisticians measured the distance of every MLB home run and discovered that there was only one instance in which a batter hit a homer that traveled 500 feet. In 1920, the first year that Ruth became a full-time batter for the Yanks, he hit a 500+ foot home run in EVERY single ball park he played in! There never has been and never will be another batter with more power than Ruth.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Here's an interesting fact: In a span of 25 years, modern statisticians measured the distance of every MLB home run and discovered that there was only one instance in which a batter hit a homer that traveled 500 feet. In 1920, the first year that Ruth became a full-time batter for the Yanks, he hit a 500+ foot home run in EVERY single ball park he played in! There never has been and never will be another batter with more power than Ruth.

Very cool! Do you have a link to that source?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robw1959]

Very cool! Do you have a link to that source?

The source is a book called "The Home Run Encyclopedia," MacMillan publishing. The information is found on pages 25-26 in a chapter titled, "Longest Home Runs." It should be noted that my memory was a bit faulty in two aspects, one of which is the 25-year time frame. The computerized measuring equipment first instituted in MLB parks in 1982 was broadened to include every ball park by 1991. It was within that 10-year time frame that only one major leaguer, Cecil Fielder, hit a 500-foot homer. His was measured at 502 feet. And the second correction is the year Ruth hit 500+ home runs in all eight A.L. ball parks he visited. It was 1921, not 1920.

Although home run measuring technology wasn't developed until the '80s, we do have enough footage of Ruth's 1921 homers to ascertain with computer analysis the fact that they traveled such historic distances. He was truly a freak!

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

How about Greg Brock, Todd Van Poppel, Ben McDonald, and Brien Taylor?

Get it? We're carving busts of athletes into a mountain. Busts!

You forgot The Boz