Hard to find Hall Of famer autographs

[prewarsports]

Two George Davis signatures exist (that I am aware of) but the owners I would imagine are very secretive about images being released for prospective forgers to use as an example. I have never seen either one, just have spoken to the one-time owner that had both of them so I know they exist.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Two George Davis signatures exist (that I am aware of) but the owners I would imagine are very secretive about images being released for prospective forgers to use as an example. I have never seen either one, just have spoken to the one-time owner that had both of them so I know they exist.

Out of curiosity, do you know the source of the two autographs or how the owner you know of got them.

[r2678]

Being an Indans fan, I've long had an interest in Addie Joss and have managed to collect a few of his cards. I've often wondered why his autograph is virtually non existant. He was an educated man, went to college, had a job as a sports writer in the off season and lived in Toledo, a decent size city. One would think he had a library and a circle of friends he corresponded with. Yet, no autographs. Has anyone advanced a theory?

People did collect autographs during his era. All one has to do is to search for theatrical autographs to see this was a flourishing hobby. Was baseball that far behind the popularity of the Maude Adams and Anna Helds of the time?

Just wondering.

[cfhofer]

I found a beautiful handwritten ink signed letter by Frank Selee in a scrapbook of a 1901 Michigan football player. It was a recruitment letter to play pro ball. Not having a clue on baseball autographs (I'm a football collector), I sent the scan to several dealers. The offers were all over the map. When I decided to go with the most reputable dealer the others got really nasty...telling me this letter must be pretty rare. Don't know where it ranks on your list but he must be pretty high given their reaction.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

I found a beautiful handwritten ink signed letter by Frank Selee in a scrapbook of a 1901 Michigan football player. It was a recruitment letter to play pro ball. Not having a clue on baseball autographs (I'm a football collector), I sent the scan to several dealers. The offers were all over the map. When I decided to go with the most reputable dealer the others got really nasty...telling me this letter must be pretty rare. Don't know where it ranks on your list but he must be pretty high given their reaction.

I actually know about this letter including seeing your original post about your find on another board. All I will say is you did sell to the most reputable dealer.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

I actually know about this letter including seeing your original post about your find on another board. All I will say is you did sell to the most reputable dealer.

I actually heard about this when it happened and I agree with tazdmb about your sale. If it wasn't me it should have been the person you sold it to.

[cfhofer]

I technically consigned the letter, however my guess is that he just bought it off me. Regardless, I was happy with the end result.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by r2678

People did collect autographs during his era. All one has to do is to search for theatrical autographs to see this was a flourishing hobby. Was baseball that far behind the popularity of the Maude Adams and Anna Helds of the time?

Just wondering.

That's pretty much exactly the reason. It wasn't until the 20's and the emergence of Babe Ruth that ballplayers became widely considered celebrity enough to ask for their signatures. Heck, it wasn't even until the late 1980's that people even cared about more than just the superstars in baseball - at least, that's when the boom really hit. You hear guys from the 70's say all the time how people just didn't collect all that much back when they played. Seems unreal to think of now.

Autograph collecting is an extremely old hobby but used to be reserved for actors, politicians, artists...people who found fame in those type of genres.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Heck, it wasn't even until the late 1980's that people even cared about more than just the superstars in baseball - at least, that's when the boom really hit.

And boy, how times have changed. I'm thinking about a few years ago, when someone paid $17,000 for a baseball card of someone who, at that point, had never pitched a single game in the Major Leagues! (Stephen Strasburg) And if that wasn't enough, the guy who bought the card flipped it to someone else for $24,000!

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

And boy, how times have changed. I'm thinking about a few years ago, when someone paid $17,000 for a baseball card of someone who, at that point, had never pitched a single game in the Major Leagues! (Stephen Strasburg) And if that wasn't enough, the guy who bought the card flipped it to someone else for $24,000!

Exactly! I'll never understand overpaying for hype. That card in a hundred years will never come close to that kind of value. It's like why would someone pay five figures for a guy who is "going to be good (maybe)" but aren't willing to pay a fraction of that for someone who is already proven to be good? I guess it's the allure of whatever is new at the moment, but for $24000 there's a decent list of long-deceased HOFers I would've added to my collection. And that's not even considering the old stuff is drying up exponentially while Strasburg is in his 20's and has a lifetime to continue signing. Off topic, sorry, that's just a topic that never ceases to amaze me...

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Exactly! I'll never understand overpaying for hype. That card in a hundred years will never come close to that kind of value. It's like why would someone pay five figures for a guy who is "going to be good (maybe)" but aren't willing to pay a fraction of that for someone who is already proven to be good?

I think at least part of it is the idea of getting in on the ground floor and the bragging rights that come with it. In the case of that specific Strasburg card, it's a very expensive ground floor, but it's still a ground floor nonetheless.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by r2678

Being an Indans fan, I've long had an interest in Addie Joss and have managed to collect a few of his cards. I've often wondered why his autograph is virtually non existant. He was an educated man, went to college, had a job as a sports writer in the off season and lived in Toledo, a decent size city. One would think he had a library and a circle of friends he corresponded with. Yet, no autographs. Has anyone advanced a theory?

People did collect autographs during his era. All one has to do is to search for theatrical autographs to see this was a flourishing hobby. Was baseball that far behind the popularity of the Maude Adams and Anna Helds of the time?

Just wondering.

Wow John, this may be the slowest response to a post on net54 (almost a year), but I just spotted your question when this thread got bumped yesterday.

I suspect several people on this board can weigh in on your question related to Addie Joss's scarcity. FYI, I have pondered the same question.
To the best of my knowledge. there are only two examples of Addie's signature in the hobby that are deemed authentic.

After discussing this topic with many people in the hobby, there are many reasons that his signature is so scarce.
Here are a few to note:

Early death date- 1911
Age-31
Short career as a ML ball player- 9 years
Autograph collecting had not yet become common in the hobby
The Addie Joss family house on Fulton Street, Toledo completely burned to the ground and all family documents, photos, etc. were lost.


I hope this helps...

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Two George Davis signatures exist (that I am aware of) but the owners I would imagine are very secretive about images being released for prospective forgers to use as an example. I have never seen either one, just have spoken to the one-time owner that had both of them so I know they exist.

I have heard for years since Davis was elected that there are only 2 of his signatures out there , and I passed along word at the time that I would buy one for xxxxx dollars . I never heard back .