I got screwed over on the BST today!

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Actually Luke, I did pay by check and I did see your thread looking for the card AFTER I had already made the deal and sent the check out. You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that I tried to make a deal with you prior to purchasing the card, although I do admit that I had not yet received the card. I won't apologize for flipping cards, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to finance my collection.

You agreed to purchase the card and then offered to sell it to me all in the same morning.

You bought it off the same BST where my WTB thread was located.

You really expect me (or anyone with a brain) to believe that you bought it for some reason other than to try to and flip to a specific person (me)? You just agreed to buy it (but didn't actually pay for it yet) at 9 AM because you really loved it, and then offered it to me at 11 AM because you didn't love it so much after all? You don't have to lie about it. You didn't commit a crime. It was just scummy.

And after I told you that I knew where (and how recently) you had got the card, you posted it in 3 different threads about how happy you were to add it to your collection. If you didn't feel guilty about anything, why did you do that?

I was happy to own it and I still am. Whether you want to believe that or not has no bearing on the truth of the matter, which is that I made a deal for the E95 Crawford (which I offered to pay Scott for via PayPal Gift, but he couldn't accept), saw that you were looking for one amongst others, and offered it to you. You intimated I offered it to you prior to making the deal which is not accurate and changes the entire dimension of the story. I apologized to Scott at the time and have since, and I still own the card to this day not that it matters.

[Secondbase]

Screwed?......No

I wish you luck in finding another but you did not win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Secondbase

Screwed?......No

I wish you luck in finding another but you did it win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

English, please?

[cozmokramer]

Originally Posted by Secondbase

Screwed?......No



I wish you luck in finding another but you did it win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

Seller has every right to back out? Even after they've collected all the money from the buyer?

In this scenario then, how long can the seller KEEP both the card and he buyers money before deciding if he's going to sell?

[shammus]

Originally Posted by Secondbase

Screwed?......No

I wish you luck in finding another but you did not win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

I see this is your first post, so since you're obviously not known to the board or any of it's members, per forum rules we're going to need your first and last name next to each post you make on controversial threads such as this one. No one is allowed to remain anonymous when participating in threads such as this. Thanks and nothing personal...

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by Secondbase

Screwed?......No

I wish you luck in finding another but you did not win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

Actually, he has no right whatsoever to back out.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Secondbase

Screwed?......No
I wish you luck in finding another but you did not win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

You are now honored by having the fewest posts ever for being banned from our BST. You won't get the chance to back out of a deal here. While a first offense won't usually get you banned it is NOT an "acceptable" action in general.. good luck

and per rules, as Brian mentioned, the name our new member gave for registration is suspect (to me) .... Chr.is toph.er....and in looking at his id and "full" name we are going to go ahead and suspend him completely until he and I have a chat. I am going to go out on a limb and think his full name isn't Chris topher........if it is then my bad .....we'll see. We don't allow complete anonymity on this board, registrations have to be correct.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Secondbase didn't make it past first.

[bobbyw8469]

#sellingcardsmatters

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Secondbase didn't make it past first.

Now that's funny

[Paul S]

Maybe he has a mononym? Like Kreskin or Zorro?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

You are now honored by having the fewest posts ever for being banned from our BST. You won't get the chance to back out of a deal here. While a first offense won't usually get you banned it is NOT an "acceptable" action in general.. good luck

and per rules, as Brian mentioned, the name our new member gave for registration is suspect (to me) .... Chr.is toph.er....and in looking at his id and "full" name we are going to go ahead and suspend him completely until he and I have a chat. I am going to go out on a limb and think his full name isn't Chris topher........if it is then my bad .....we'll see. We don't allow complete anonymity on this board, registrations have to be correct.

I am impressed by the quick and decisive action taken by Leon in this case and agree that we do not need members on this board who feel it's ok to back out of a transaction, especially one where thousands of dollars have already changed hands.

Another reason why I'm a big fan of this board.

[dclarkraiders]

+1. Well said.

Duane Clark

[dclarkraiders]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am impressed by the quick and decisive action taken by Leon in this case and agree that we do not need members on this board who feel it's ok to back out of a transaction, especially one where thousands of dollars have already changed hands.

Another reason why I'm a big fan of this board.

+1. Well said

Duane Clark

[oldjudge]

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

Ha!

Maybe someone should call judge Judy.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

Pretty much it is a contract at that point both parties agreed on it and I believe that you're right. Both parties would have to agree to make the contract VOID.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe that your statement is correct.

[iwantitiwinit]

Gobucsmagic the deal, as you seem to agree with the buyers version, was not predicated upon your securing a replacement card. An agreement was made, funds were sent, honor the deal!!!!!!

I would think he actually has grounds for a civil action that would require you to make specific performance.

Based on the facts presented it appears to me that GoBucsmagic is not an honorable person.

[thenextlevel]

I agree that the deal should be honored, but can people calm down with the legal innuendos. No one is suing(let alone winning) a judgement for a failed BST transaction on a sportscard message board.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

I agree that the deal should be honored, but can people calm down with the legal innuendos. No one is suing(let alone winning) a judgement for a failed BST transaction on a sportscard message board.

This......LMAO at all of the legal mumbo jumbo......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

This......LMAO at all of the legal mumbo jumbo......

Hey I resemble that remark.

[Exhibitman]

You only have one hobby reputation and an honorable collector and gentleman honors his deals (and his gambling debts), even when it is not convenient. It may be caveat emptor, it may be something that no one is going to run out and sue over, but that's irrelevant. Is it really worth your hobby rep to renege on a friggin' card deal?

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

From the legal standpoint, there was most certainly a binding contract which is enforceable, and either money damages or specific performance (compelling a transfer of the Mantle at issue to the buyer) is in order. Specific performance may depend upon whether or not this particular card is considered unique. In a more practical context, almost anything that goes into litigation will ultimately entail at least 12-20 hours of legal time, at approximately $200/hr. or so as the attorney's fee. Unless you can go through small claims court, the lawyer is the only real winner.

Also from a more practical standpoint, the failure of the seller to fulfill his promise to sell upon completion of the transfer of the funds will, as a virtual certainty, reflect so poorly upon him that those who are aware of this failure will refrain from engaging in any transactions with him.

Conclusion: It's time to deliver the card, Dan, with no more BS.

Most sincerely,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Also from a more practical standpoint, the failure of the seller to fulfill his promise to sell upon completion of the transfer of the funds will, as a virtual certainty, reflect so poorly upon him that those who are aware of this failure will refrain from engaging in any transactions with him.

I disagree, respectfully. If he has a card someone really wants, they will overlook it, just like most people overlook all the other BS in this hobby. As has been said ad nauseum, stuff trumps all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Larry, remember Oliver Wendell Holmes' "bad man" theory of the law? Case in point.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I disagree, respectfully. If he has a card someone really wants, they will overlook it, just like most people overlook all the other BS in this hobby. As has been said ad nauseum, stuff trumps all.

I would also respectfully disagree, Pete. My experience over more than 25 years of collecting is that when a dealer/seller gets a bad rep, others will and do refrain from dealing with him. Unless its an extremely rare item, they can get it elsewhere--all that's necessary is a little patience, which the hobby could use in various respects.

I do always like to read your posts, and wish you the best,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

I would also respectfully disagree, Pete. My experience over more than 25 years of collecting is that when a dealer/seller gets a bad rep, others will and do refrain from dealing with him. Unless its an extremely rare item, they can get it elsewhere--all that's necessary is a little patience, which the hobby could use in various respects.

I do always like to read your posts, and wish you the best,

Larry

How many people do you think stopped bidding in Legendary after all the Mastro/Allen stuff came out? My guess is not many, even among their harshest critics, as has been acknowledged on this Board in fact. Not making a judgment about that, just pointing out that stuff is what rules. Look at all the insinuations of shill bidding against certain major online ebay sellers. Their dominance just keeps on increasing.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many people do you think stopped bidding in Legendary after all the Mastro/Allen stuff came out? My guess is not many, even among their harshest critics, as has been acknowledged on this Board in fact. Not making a judgment about that, just pointing out that stuff is what rules. Look at all the insinuations of shill bidding against certain major online ebay sellers. Their dominance just keeps on increasing.

The sort of interesting thing about that, at least from my perspective, was the fact that I wondered if bidding in Mastro/Allen after the indictments wasn't much safer than before. I actually talked to my brother about that at the time. My thinking was that even they wouldn't be so brazen, bold, stupid, whatever descriptive term you want to use, when they were under indictment and being heavily scrutinized by the feds, as to shill the cards at that point. It wasn't that I didn't think they were cheaters and fraudsters, because I absolutely did, but I thought that they would be running the cleanest auctions ever at that point because they were already under indictment.

I tested this theory one time, in one auction, and threw in a couple of what I considered to be fairly low max bids on the last day. Surprisingly, I actually won both of the cards I had bid on, both below the max bid price, one at a really good price. That doesn't mean that I wasn't shilled by any means, but I will say that I was really surprised by how little I ended up paying for cards. I view it as somewhat of an interesting character study about how greed and fraud works when the feds have you and are far up your ass.

[asphaltman]

It doesn't sound like anything is going to change here, Dan hasn't changed his mind and I guess he's already been banned from the BST.

Leon is he banned from just selling?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

You agreed to purchase the card and then offered to sell it to me all in the same morning.

You bought it off the same BST where my WTB thread was located.

You really expect me (or anyone with a brain) to believe that you bought it for some reason other than to try to and flip to a specific person (me)? You just agreed to buy it (but didn't actually pay for it yet) at 9 AM because you really loved it, and then offered it to me at 11 AM because you didn't love it so much after all? You don't have to lie about it. You didn't commit a crime. It was just scummy.

And after I told you that I knew where (and how recently) you had got the card, you posted it in 3 different threads about how happy you were to add it to your collection. If you didn't feel guilty about anything, why did you do that?

i think the first deal with the 1951 mantle is a black mark on gobucsmagic..but i dont see anything wrong about what he did with the flip with you...afterall, he already was locked in to pay for the card and he couldnt of been 100% sure you would of wanted the same card....could of still been a price issue or centering issue with the card....was no sure thing he would of been able to sell to you...