The various Tobacco Factory's and their associated T206 T-brand's

tedzan · #1 09-21-2015, 01:20 PM

The POLAR BEAR tobacco brand was produced in Middletown, Ohio (Factory 6).

The Demmitt and O'Hara cards provide us an insight into the timeline when the POLAR BEAR cards where initially introduced. The New York versions of Demmitt and O'Hara
were printed prior to the POLAR BEAR press runs. Subsequently, Demmitt and O'Hara were then traded to their respective St Louis teams for the 1910 season. Early in May,
both players were re-assigned to the Eastern League. The St Louis variations of Demmitt and O'Hara were printed ONLY with the POLAR BEAR back. Therefore, from this we
can conclude that the first series of POLAR BEAR cards were printed and issued circa..Spring/Summer 1910.

1912 Imperial Tobacco (C46)....Eastern (International) League cards of Demmitt and O'Hara

TED Z
.

tedzan · #2 09-21-2015, 04:28 PM

I am sure I'll have to dodge some flak aimed at me for saying this.....but as more info has surfaced in recent years regarding this card,
I've become convinced it is the 525th card in the T206 set.
To date, only 14 (or 15) examples have been confirmed. I really expect that more of these Cobb's will eventually be discovered.

In any event, my research suggests that Factory #33, 4th District was located in Wilson, NC. Wilson is only 54 miles from Factory #42,
4th District in Durham, NC.

.

TED Z
.

1880nonsports · #3 09-21-2015, 05:01 PM

if the words base ball series (or subjects) were on the back - sure looks like a T206 though

...... I conceded to the monster about half way through as it took too much time away from my core goals (and too new!) - but I always thought of it as arbitrary depending mostly on how one defined the groups.

yoyot1 · #4 09-21-2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

In any event, my research suggests that Factory #33, 4th District was located in Wilson, NC. Wilson is only 54 miles from Factory #42,
4th District in Durham, NC.

What's the evidence pointing to Wilson? In older threads I've seen Reidsville, Wilson, and Durham posited as possible Factory 33 locations - what rules out the other two?

Not challenging the assertion, and I have no contradicting evidence, just curious.

dealme · #5 09-21-2015, 09:17 PM

I've always been somewhat curious about it, and this seems like a reasonable place to post this question. How regional was the distribution of T206s? Ted referenced Middletown, OH as the production location for Polar Bear. It seems reasonable to infer that cards issued with Polar Bear backs would have been much more prevalent in the Midwest. Is this actually the case, or did ATC make their various brands (specifically Piedmont and Sweet Cap) available throughout the country?

Along the same lines, how far west were T206s distributed? Obviously the eastern part of the country was far more settled and industrialized than the west in the 1909-1911 time-frame. Put another way, if I stop at a garage sale or flea market when visiting the Denver area, is it even worth looking?

I've found this to be a very interesting thread, especially the modern-day pics of older production facilities. Thanks to those that have posted.

Mark

tedzan · #6 09-22-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealme

I've always been somewhat curious about it, and this seems like a reasonable place to post this question. How regional was the distribution of T206s ?
Ted referenced Middletown, OH as the production location for Polar Bear. It seems reasonable to infer that cards issued with Polar Bear backs would have been much more prevalent in the Midwest. Is this actually the case, or did ATC make their various brands (specifically Piedmont and Sweet Cap) available throughout the country?

Along the same lines, how far west were T206s distributed? Obviously the eastern part of the country was far more settled and industrialized than the west in the 1909-1911 time-frame. Put another way, if I stop at a garage sale or flea market when visiting the Denver area, is it even worth looking?

I've found this to be a very interesting thread, especially the modern-day pics of older production facilities. Thanks to those that have posted.

Mark

Hi Mark

A very good question.
Although the following may be anecdotal, here are my experiences acquiring (or being involved in) original T206 collections during the past 35 years.

South Carolina...........400+ assorted all PIEDMONT cards, including 29 - OLD MILL Southern Leaguers

Atlanta, Georgia.........285 assorted all PIEDMONT cards

Pennsylvania..............220 different SOVEREIGN cards

Other T206 original finds......

Baltimore, MD............750 cards

Upstate New York......300+ different SOVEREIGN cards

St Louis......................43 - DRUM cards

Northern California.....184 - EPDG and OLD MILL cards

Maine.........................1000+ Tobacco cards

These quickly pop into my mind........but, there are many more

TED Z
.

tedzan · #7 10-16-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoyot1

What's the evidence pointing to Wilson? In older threads I've seen Reidsville, Wilson, and Durham posited as possible Factory 33 locations - what rules out the other two?

Not challenging the assertion, and I have no contradicting evidence, just curious.

I appreciate your curiosity. I correct my statement in post #22......

Factory #33 (4th District) that manufactured the Ty Cobb Tobacco was located in Reidsville, NC.

The Wilson, NC Factory is the location of Contentnea Cigarette production.

Please excuse, I didn't mean to confuse.

.

TED Z
.

The Nasty Nati · #8 10-18-2015, 01:44 PM

Walked by the American Lithographic Co. building today...wouldn't it be somethin if freshly minted T206s were somewhere buried in the basement or hidden in the walls

tedzan · #9 10-19-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Walked by the American Lithographic Co. building today...wouldn't it be somethin if freshly minted T206s were somewhere buried in the basement or hidden in the walls

Great photo, guy.

A pretty good looking building for a 120 year old structure. Joseph Palmer Knapp took over American Lithographic from his father in the late 19th Century.
And, had this 13-story building constructed in 1895. Nowadays, this building is dwarfed by the skyscrapers that surround it in lower Manhattan.

Furthermore, J. P. Knapp and James Buchanan Duke (ATC) became close business partners. J. B. Duke financed J. P. Knapp in the early days of American
Lithographic.

TED Z
.

wolf441 · #10 09-22-2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

I am sure I'll have to dodge some flak aimed at me for saying this.....but as more info has surfaced in recent years regarding this card,
I've become convinced it is the 525th card in the T206 set.
To date, only 14 (or 15) examples have been confirmed. I really expect that more of these Cobb's will eventually be discovered.

In any event, my research suggests that Factory #33, 4th District was located in Wilson, NC. Wilson is only 54 miles from Factory #42,
4th District in Durham, NC.

.

TED Z
.

Hi Ted,

What are your thoughts on the Red Cobb w/ Cobb back actually being distributed in packs of cigarettes? It always seemed more likely to me, to be some sort of promotional item. Would Ty be able to order a sheet of Tobacco Cards with his own "brand back" to be given out at, for example, his car dealership in Georgia?

But, I guess if that was the case, why add a factory number to the card.

Any idea when the earliest known reference was to the Cobb back? Wondering if we have proof that these cards were around at the time that the rest of the T206's were being distributed.

Thanks as always for the insight!

best,

Steve

tedzan · #11 09-22-2015, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf441

Hi Ted,

1....What are your thoughts on the Red Cobb w/ Cobb back actually being distributed in packs of cigarettes? It always seemed more likely to me, to be some sort of promotional item. Would Ty be able to order a sheet of Tobacco Cards with his own "brand back" to be given out at, for example, his car dealership in Georgia?

2....But, I guess if that was the case, why add a factory number to the card.

3....Any idea when the earliest known reference was to the Cobb back? Wondering if we have proof that these cards were around at the time that the rest of the T206's were being distributed.

Thanks as always for the insight!

best,

Steve

Steve

My answers to your 3 questions......

1st....My guess is that they were not in cigarette packs, no packs have ever been found. And, I do not think they were included in the Ty Cobb Smoking Tobacco Tin.
Most likely, these cards were handed out to Cobb's friends and acquaintances.

2nd....The Factory number is necessary on this this card since it is associated with Cobb's Tobacco Tin (which also identifies Factory #33).

3rd....There was Georgia newspaper advertising in the Spring of 1910 introducing Cobb's new tobacco product.

Furthermore, former Georgia Senator Richard Russell's 1000+ tobacco card collection (which is on display at the Univ. of Georgia) includes this unique Ty Cobb card.
My research regarding Russell's childhood collection suggests that he acquired this card in 1910 when he was a teenager travelling with his Dad (a Judge) to Atlanta.

TED Z
.

wolf441 · #12 09-22-2015, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Steve

My answers to your 3 questions......

1st....My guess is that they were not in cigarette packs, no packs have ever been found. And, I do not think they were included in the Ty Cobb Smoking Tobacco Tin.
Most likely, these cards were handed out to Cobb's friends and acquaintances.

2nd....The Factory number is necessary on this this card since it is associated with Cobb's Tobacco Tin (which also identifies Factory #33).

3rd....There was Georgia newspaper advertising in the Spring of 1910 introducing Cobb's new tobacco product.

Furthermore, former Georgia Senator Richard Russell's 1000+ tobacco card collection (which is on display at the Univ. of Georgia) includes this unique Ty Cobb card.
My research regarding Russell's childhood collection suggests that he acquired this card in 1910 when he was a teenager travelling with his Dad (a Judge) to Atlanta.

TED Z
.

Thanks Ted!

Interesting stuff. Makes you wonder where in Atlanta he acquired it.

A direct gift from Cobb (as a celebrity of the day, I'd assume Cobb would most likely know some judges)?

A promotional give away at a minor league/semi pro game?

A give away as part of one of Cobb's business enterprises?

tedzan · #13 09-23-2015, 09:47 AM

My understanding is that Richard Russell's Dad was a well-connected Judge in Atlanta region. So, it's anyone's guess how the 13 year old Russell acquired the Ty Cobb card.

Incidentally, Russell's T206 collection also includes a Joe Doyle Natl'L card.

How many T206 collections can make that claim ?

TED Z
.

tedzan · #14 09-25-2015, 09:21 AM

Factory #649 in New York state was the Tobacco manufacturing plant of the HINDU cigarettes during the printing of the T206 and T205 cards era.
And subsequently, the T201 and T202 era of their MECCA and HASSAN products, respectively.

Furthermore, in 1909, ATC transferred a portion of their SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production to Factory #649. So, American Lithographic had to
overprint their pre-printed SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30 cards with #649 identification.

,

TED Z
.

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