Hank Aaron card values

[jasonc]

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't think he was as good as Mays, Mantle, Williams, Clemente, etc. I don't see his cards ever equalling those players' values.

Actually he had more home runs and base hits then any of those. Looking at Career stats Aaron's overall numbers arguably could be the best ever (Bonds and Ruth are right up there as well) Mind you he was a different type of hitter than Ty Cobb etc.

[Volod]

If Henry had played in NY, his cards would no doubt be priced above Willie's, but not Mantle's, though, for obvious, if deplorable, reasons.

[Gr8Beldini]

Originally Posted by Volod

If Henry had played in NY, his cards would no doubt be priced above Willie's, but not Mantle's, though, for obvious, if deplorable, reasons.

That one's favorite player is white isn't necessarily "deplorable." I think the issue of race when pricing a Baseball card is way overblown.

1. Mantle is one of the 2 or 3 most iconic Baseball players of all-time and his cards are priced accordingly (he's certainly the most iconic in our hobby).
2. Eddie Mathews' stats are much better than Jackie Robinson's. Jackie is in great demand because he is iconic while Eddie is boring.
3. There is greater demand for Bob Gibson cards than there is for guys like Jim Palmer, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, even Tom Seaver. Gibson wasn't better than those guys. He is more iconic. Nobody cares that he is black.
4. Satchel Paige was a journeyman Major League pitcher who's cards sell for much more than Bob Feller (an upper-tier HoFer). Why?
5. If that black/white stuff was real, there would be a greater demand for Yogi cards than for Campanella cards. There isn't.
6. Roberto Clemente cards sell for much more money than a comparible player of his accomplishments (and Roberto has the double whammy, black and hispanic). Al Kaline is an exact (white) contemporary (same stats; same years; same fielding prowess; neither played in NY...). Which cards are in greater demand? If race was an issue, Kaline cards would be through the roof while Roberto's would be priced with the mid-tier guys.

It's not like the price guide guys subtract 20% for blackness. Cards are priced based on demand. Iconic players are in more demand than non iconic players. There are pleanty of iconic black players, many of them more iconic than comparable white players.

[campyfan39]

A thought I had is that Hank isn't as beloved for whatever reason as those other guys. His personality since retirement (talking about race so much and being unfriendly at card shows) may have something to do with it.
His accomplishments are amazing regardless.

[tjenkins]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

A thought I had is that Hank isn't as beloved for whatever reason as those other guys. His personality since retirement (talking about race so much and being unfriendly at card shows) may have something to do with it.
His accomplishments are amazing regardless.

Can anyone say Dick Allen, he is probably not in the Hall for very similar reasons.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

A thought I had is that Hank isn't as beloved for whatever reason as those other guys. His personality since retirement (talking about race so much and being unfriendly at card shows) may have something to do with it.
His accomplishments are amazing regardless.

You are confusing Mays and Aaron w/r/t card show behavior. I have had the pleasure of meeting Aaron at a couple of shows and he was always a perfect gentleman, cordial and pleasant. Mays acts like fans are something nasty he tracked in on his shoe.

I don't follow all the stats gobbledygook like I should, but one thing to consider is that Mantle's great seasons took place in a concentrated period; at the start of his career he was promising and for five of the last six years he played he was mediocre and injured; by the time he was 33 he was basically finished as an elite player. Aaron stayed on track as an elite player for 18 years, even through the greatest surge of pitching in history, and into his 40s. Some people piss all over consistency, but consistency is a good thing if I am building a team. Here's what I love about Aaron if I am building a team, over Mantle:

Total Bases:
1955 NL 325 (6th)
1956 NL 340 (1st)
1957 NL 369 (1st)
1958 NL 328 (3rd)
1959 NL 400 (1st)
1960 NL 334 (1st)
1961 NL 358 (1st)
1962 NL 366 (3rd)
1963 NL 370 (1st)
1965 NL 319 (4th)
1966 NL 325 (4th)
1967 NL 344 (1st)
1968 NL 302 (2nd)
1969 NL 332 (1st)

OPS
1955 NL .906 (9th)
1956 NL .923 (5th)
1957 NL .978 (3rd)
1958 NL .931 (4th)
1959 NL 1.037 (1st)
1960 NL .919 (5th)
1961 NL .974 (3rd)
1962 NL 1.008 (2nd)
1963 NL .977 (1st)
1964 NL .907 (6th)
1965 NL .938 (2nd)
1966 NL .895 (8th)
1967 NL .943 (3rd)
1968 NL .852 (5th)
1969 NL 1.003 (2nd)
1970 NL .958 (6th)
1971 NL 1.079 (1st)
1972 NL .904 (5th)
1973 NL 1.045 (2nd)**

He beat the...snot out of the ball during three decades and got on base a lot, and kept it up as compared to his peers for a very long time. The proof is in the cards. Really. As any Aaron collector can tell you, one of the most annoying things about collecting Aaron cards is that if you decide to go after leader cards you have to pick up so many of the damned things; it is just a good thing they didn't make them in the 1950s.

[campyfan39]

^ Adam, I am glad you have had good experiences with Hank. I have heard many stories to the contrary. In fact, I have met about 30-40 players from the era at shows through the years and Hank was by far the most unfriendly. May have been having a bad day but it is what it is.
Chris

[Volod]

Originally Posted by Gr8Beldini

That one's favorite player is white isn't necessarily "deplorable." I think the issue of race when pricing a Baseball card is way overblown.

1. Mantle is one of the 2 or 3 most iconic Baseball players of all-time and his cards are priced accordingly (he's certainly the most iconic in our hobby).
2. Eddie Mathews' stats are much better than Jackie Robinson's. Jackie is in great demand because he is iconic while Eddie is boring.
3. There is greater demand for Bob Gibson cards than there is for guys like Jim Palmer, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, even Tom Seaver. Gibson wasn't better than those guys. He is more iconic. Nobody cares that he is black.
4. Satchel Paige was a journeyman Major League pitcher who's cards sell for much more than Bob Feller (an upper-tier HoFer). Why?
5. If that black/white stuff was real, there would be a greater demand for Yogi cards than for Campanella cards. There isn't.
6. Roberto Clemente cards sell for much more money than a comparible player of his accomplishments (and Roberto has the double whammy, black and hispanic). Al Kaline is an exact (white) contemporary (same stats; same years; same fielding prowess; neither played in NY...). Which cards are in greater demand? If race was an issue, Kaline cards would be through the roof while Roberto's would be priced with the mid-tier guys.

It's not like the price guide guys subtract 20% for blackness. Cards are priced based on demand. Iconic players are in more demand than non iconic players. There are pleanty of iconic black players, many of them more iconic than comparable white players.

Sorry for any confusion. My comment was strictly in reference to a comparison of Aaron's card values to those of Mantle. It was intended to be limited to that particular consideration and, of course, was not meant to be applied across sports generally, nor to any other players or their cards. What I meant was that the application of such factors as race in card value is deplorable. I think it takes more than a little twisting to suggest that I was deploring the skin color of someone's favorite player.