Brady Suspension Overturned

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The questions the judge asked of the NFL during the hearings lead me to believe that he felt they were important issues and factored into his decision. I don't have any direct quotes, but it seemed to me he disagreed with their reasoning as well as having a problem with the procedural issues.

In the end you can only go by the language of the opinion.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In the end you can only go by the language of the opinion.

I will yield to your legal expertise on this one.

[yanks12025]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

Anyone with a reasonable mind knows that they cannot know for sure what Brady did or didn't know.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Anyone with a reasonable mind knows that they cannot know for sure what Brady did or didn't know.

It was the same with the 1919 Black Sox. They went to court, won, were all smiles....then Landis dropped the bomb on them.

Brady got the bomb dropped on him by the commissioner before court, then had the commissioner overruled when it went to court.

Thanks, Peter, for sharing the details as to why this happened. Since Goodell was wrist-slapped by the courts for technical failings in his process, it seems like the next step is for Goodell (or any other commissioner) to simply go to court any time someone steps out of line...since Goodell isn't a court and can't be expected to follow exactly the same procedures when trying to administer disciplinary actions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

They weren't fired, just suspended indefinitely without pay.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

LOL... I'm assuming you're a Yankees fan. Where are the posts about the Yankees cheating (i.e Petitte, Arod, etc.)??

Let's face it, every team is cheating, some more than others. Cheating has probably been happening since the beginning of each sport. We accept it when our team wins and are critical of it when our team loses, especially to a team we hate (i.e. Patriots).

[egri]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

[TUM301]

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Nail meet hammer, right on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

Peter - it's obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you understand the legal implications of all of this better than the rest of us, who represent the average joe who is watching from the sidelines. So no need to patronize me - I appreciate your expertise.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

[nolemmings]

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

Believe me, I have not an ounce of envy for the Patriots. But hey, keep drinking that Kool Aid.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

I don't have a real problem with the decision as stated. I also agree with your analysis other than perhaps the first clause in the first sentence. We can debate the effect or advantage of improperly inflated footballs and thus the rule governing them, but it appears to me it was much ado about something the Patriots thought important, and that they took noticeable lengths to try and avoid the rule. This was fairly orchestrated conduct that they clearly wanted kept hush hush. Why if it really makes no difference?

Also, while I agree there should be adequate notice of the potential penalty such that 4 games under these circumstances was excessive and violative of the CBA, it strains credulity to make the argument that gee I thought such infraction would only carry a $25K fine. You don't go to such lengths just to avoid such a minimal penalty. Brady and the Patriots, maybe others as well, would gladly and openly pay $25K for the opportunity to fine-tune the pressure on their footballs. Hell, do it on the sidelines and hand the check to the NFL on the spot--it's worth it. IMO they knew damn well that what they were doing was more than a token equipment violation. This case did/does have integrity of the game implications-do you really think that Goodell thought it a good idea to slap one of the league's more popular franchises and an even more popular player just for giggles, knowing that this crap storm would likely follow where even if he wins he's skewered? This is why I cannot agree that it is really much ado but nothing. Goodell handled it poorly--quelle surpris--but that doesn't mean there was nothing there or it wasn't worth protecting. There are no winners here.