Looking for cardboard investment

[Peter_Spaeth]

My investment advice would be, don't seek or take investment advice from people you don't know on chatboards.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My investment advice would be, don't seek or take investment advice from people you don't know on chatboards.

LMAO.

I'm a big boy. But some help narrowing it down is always nice

[bbcard1]

Hang on to your money and let the investment choose you…by that I mean that if you don't have a specific target, wait to see a lot that offers a very good buy…you should be able to buy a chunk of a set at a good discount if you are patient.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mick

LMAO.

I'm a big boy. But some help narrowing it down is always nice

Nobody here has any idea what the market is going to be tomorrow. If they pretend otherwise they are full of it. Things get hot, things get cold. In my opinion HOF rookie cards in decent grade or better are probably most likely to stand the test of time, but I could be full of it too. Or the popular issues of Ruth, Cobb, and Mantle.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody here has any idea what the market is going to be tomorrow. If they pretend otherwise they are full of it. Things get hot, things get cold. In my opinion HOF rookie cards in decent grade or better are probably most likely to stand the test of time, but I could be full of it too. Or the popular issues of Ruth, Cobb, and Mantle.

Now Pete, I thought from one of our posts/discussions just prior to the National that you didn't believe vintage collectors had any significant interest in HOF rookie cards--lol. For the record, though, I do agree with you for the most part, and completely with regard to any short term investment. Long term, a very simple formula has proven to be applicable in virtually every collectibles field with regard to appreciation in value: rare, significant, and in the best condition you can find or afford! Condition is of course the easy part, whereas determining how rare and/or significant an item is depends on study, research, and knowledge--and from there, you just have to make your best guess (or analysis). My study of the coin, car, and rare books field, as well as what has happened in this area of collectibles since the late '70's, indicates that if something is truly rare and significant, demand will eventually come around. In contrast, things which are only moderately scarce, rather than truly rare, tend to be cyclical in terms of their appreciation in value.

Always enjoy your posts and wish you the best,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Larry LOL, I guess I should have clarified I was thinking for the most part about the post-war HOF RCs that keep seeing so much appreciation -- Mantle, Aaron, Clemente, Jordan, Montana, and so forth. But I would buy those obscure pre-war ones over commons any day.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Larry LOL, I guess I should have clarified I was thinking for the most part about the post-war HOF RCs that keep seeing so much appreciation -- Mantle, Aaron, Clemente, Jordan, Montana, and so forth. But I would buy those obscure pre-war ones over commons any day.

Pete, did you see the gargantuan sums the Clemente and Koufax rookies in PSA 9 went for in the Heritage auction a little over a month ago? More than $300K each, if memory serves correctly. This tells me that our little old hobby has quite a ways to go, especially once the big boys get involved! Personally, I believe that even Pre-War is in its infancy, compared to other collectible fields. If anyone else won an item as I did in Leon's recent auction, they likely received a book from Heritage along with it. Some of the other items in various other areas of collecting which were depicted in this book fetched truly astronomical $$$.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Pete, did you see the gargantuan sums the Clemente and Koufax rookies in PSA 9 went for in the Heritage auction a little over a month ago? More than $300K each, if memory serves correctly. This tells me that our little old hobby has quite a ways to go, especially once the big boys get involved! Personally, I believe that even Pre-War is in its infancy, compared to other collectible fields. If anyone else won an item as I did in Leon's recent auction, they likely received a book from Heritage along with it. Some of the other items in various other areas of collecting which were depicted in this book fetched truly astronomical $$$.

Best wishes,

Larry

Larry yeah I saw those. Flip buying madness.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Pete, did you see the gargantuan sums the Clemente and Koufax rookies in PSA 9 went for in the Heritage auction a little over a month ago? More than $300K each, if memory serves correctly. This tells me that our little old hobby has quite a ways to go, especially once the big boys get involved! Personally, I believe that even Pre-War is in its infancy, compared to other collectible fields. If anyone else won an item as I did in Leon's recent auction, they likely received a book from Heritage along with it. Some of the other items in various other areas of collecting which were depicted in this book fetched truly astronomical $$$.

Best wishes,

Larry

Self-correction: The Clemente went for $310,000; the Koufax went for only $89,000. I guess I was thinking of the 1952 Topps Mantle in PSA 8, which went for $382,000 (it was a mere $112,000 card in 2010!). Male egos with lots and lots of money!

Regards,

Larry

[Jim F]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My investment advice would be, don't seek or take investment advice from people you don't know on chatboards.

Top 10 posts of all time

[SAllen2556]

I understand the OP's intent isn't to spend his kids' inheritance here, but as a simple collector I've always found the idea of "investing" in this hobby to be an interesting topic. Investing in baseball cards feels similar to investing in art - risky at best and very foolish if you're not an expert in the field. What cards have truly out-performed the safer investment markets like the stock market, bonds, etc.? If you had $50k to invest, who in their right mind would invest in sports cards as their primary investment? I'd much rather own a piece of property, for example. It seems like some people use the "investing" justification to fuel what could best be termed an addiction! (Again, I understand this was not the intent or situation of the OP.)

If you went back to, say, 1985, what cards could you have purchased that would have beaten the stock market or real estate over the last 30 years? I think of my parents' house in 1985 worth about $50k then, that today would sell for around $200k today. Could you have beaten that with sports cards? Wagner and Mantle come to mind, but who back then would have believed the prices today would be what they are? Just think if you'd purchased $50k worth of 1985 Topps baseball cards…yuck!

What if you had purchased the entire 1914 Cracker Jack set, or every t206 card except the biggies back then, would you, in fact, be ahead? It's fun to think about the whole time-machine thing and what you could have invested in vs. what you actually did. In 1978 I paid $5 for a 1953 Topps Al Rosen because I was 12 and it was the first "old" card I'd ever seen and I had to have it. It had two holes in it and today is worth about….$3, maybe.

[T206Collector]

It all depends on circumstance. In 1997, I bought two raw T206s from a friend - a T206 Bender Portrait for $150 and a T206 Matty White Cap for $350. Today the Bender is in an SGC 50 holder and worth about what I paid for it nearly 20 years ago. The Matty is in an SGC 60 holder and worth about 3 times what I paid for it 20 years ago. It's all in the details!

[btkpath]

I am clearly partial, but the 1914 Cracker Jacks offer a beautiful, iconic set that will be challenging, but not impossible, contains some of the hobby's iconic cards and which is in a mini-slump at the moment, with lots of inventory available at this point and coming up in future auctions.

[Leon]

If I had 10k to 15k a yr to spend, and wanted to complete a set with a lot of variables and interest, I would look at T205. It is doable and has so many ways to collect it you can do almost anything you want to. Come to think of it, I think it might be the most interesting and beautiful set I can think of. I have always thought that though, from my first T205 Johnson in a PSA 7 holder (from my auction partner when I barely knew him) around 15 yrs ago.....to today. Just a great set. As for it being an investment, buy the right cards at the right price and I don't think you will lose money. And I couldn't be happier than knowing this Cobb (from my collection just sold) ended up in one of my favorite hobbyist's collection.

[Bosox Blair]

For me, if you want upside you have to avoid cards that have already recently run up - so that rules out T206 and 1914CJ.

I agree with Leon: I think T205 would be interesting to collect and prices are low now. On the E-card side there are lots of good options - E-card pricing is generally way down from its all-time highs 8-9 years ago. As the OP indicated E95 would be a good set to build in very nice shape for not a great amount of money. Or an E93 or E92 set (but not the super-tough ones like Nadja or Red Crofts).

Have fun (and patience)!

Cheers,
Blair

[Mick]

I've decided to do the T205. As Blair said, they have been extremely flat for a number of years, are fairly available for less than knee bucking prices and are freakin sweet to look at.

I scored my first one today. A Chance PSA 6.

[begsu1013]

key word is "investing".

time is money. multiple shipping charges costs more money. when time to sell, all those scans/listings take more time and money...unless you consign.

if your primary focus is the investment side, keep it simple. 1 card. highest possible grade you can afford.

51/52 mantle comes to mind. again, for investment purposes.

if you want to build a pre-war set for fun, then that's a completely different animal.

don't mix investing and pleasure.

if you're looking for pleasure, find a roulette table. preferably one w/o the double 00. throw it down on black and lemme know how ya did.

[the 'stache]

Mick, good choice with the T205 set. The cards are beautiful, and you should get a lot of enjoyment from them while you own them.

As others have alluded to, you need to exercise caution when buying. This Chance auction had all kinds of red flags--2 feedback, nothing sold within the last year, obviously no history of selling cards from the same era, and pictures that anybody could find on the internet. Not only that, but there are two different cards pictured. One in a PSA slab, and another in a top loader. A cursory inspection of the two pictures shows it's clearly not the same card. Look at the left inside border. Look at the wear patterns, and different blemishes.



This is an auction you should run away from as fast as you can. It's not surprising that the seller is getting confrontational now. They're scam artists.

Don't ever hesitate to ask questions before you bid/buy. Ask the seller to provide a picture of their business card, or their EBay user name alongside the card. If they are unwilling to do this, that's a red flag. As the consumer, you need to be proactive, because while this was "only" $350, there will be more expensive cards out there. You want to establish good buying habits. They will serve you well.

The BST here is an excellent resource. If you buy off site, and are unsure if the card(s) you are considering are legit, ask questions of the members here. We all try to police the hobby, and help each other out.

Good luck with your collection!

Bill