The Leon Luckey Type Card Collection – Bidding Ends on Thursday - August 13, 2015

[sago]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Please allow a contrasting view. Not all of us here are interested in collecting T206; in fact, I and some others find it for the most part immensely boring. Accordingly, I often ignore threads on the subject rather than complain about it–that is the expected protocol, right? Now imagine my delight when there’s a thread started on a type collection–a magnificent one with (in my view) endless subjects of discussion-and from a board member no less. A collection after my own heart, with a little something for everybody that may bring out very informative posts about more obscure issues. I open that thread to see repeated ramblings that I found nearly incoherent about, guess what–T206! Better still, Frankenstein and scrap T206, where machine shop errors are elevated to cult and coveted status. More and more were my eyes treated to these posts. Now I’m sorry, but IF EVER there was a thread in which such subject could take a back seat to the topic at hand and go its own way for those who care, this was it. But no, on and on it went, with the same poster often just posting one after another.

Then, instead of getting back on track, there was a somewhat prolonged period of testimonials for this poster and his apparent unmatched “passion” and exuberance for his niche, as though the rest of us can’t get that and as if that was the point. Another day or so of few meaty posts in favor of more opportunities to hear from the T206 collectors. Thankfully, there since have been a good number of posts about pick-ups from this exquisite grouping.

I admit to having never even taken much less scored highly in an etiquette class, and by no means did I diffuse the situation here. Perhaps I am incendiary, although I am not miserable. This board and the hobby have changed over the past few years, neither to my liking. I blame no one, or maybe I blame everyone. There are options available to me, and they should be considered. For purposes of this post and thread, though, I just want to congratulate Leon and all who were fortunate enough to have won something, and hope to hear more about those winnings.

Block all of his posts if he annoys you that much.

[BobC]

Tom,

Yes, I saw that also there were multiple bidders above the final price that Leon's W511 cards achieved. That is what didn't make sense and why I brought it up. I was wondering if there was some credence to the point one person made about the auction getting better results if a different AH were used. It certainly isn't a PSA versus SGC issue as I wouldn't call the W511 cards a normal set that someone would try to establish as the top set on the PSA registry. And besides, PSA only gave it an Authentic grade whereas SGC gave both of Leon's cards a numerical grade.

I'm guessing the Ebay bidders were possibly not bidding in the Heritage auction, or even aware of it. I am sure there are a lot of people that bid on Ebay that don't use auction houses because they either don't know, or don't care, about the AHs, or may even figure that they would pay more through an AH what with the buyer's premium and such that usually gets tacked on to the hammer price. In this case, it turned out to be just the opposite, and only three days after Leon's auction ended!

I was thinking that with the National and some other really great auctions all just ending within a couple weeks of Leon's auction, is it possible there was too much saturation of great, high priced items out there in such a short period of time that potential buyer's held back on items such as these W511 cards? Huggins & Scott's auction ended a week earlier than Leon's, then there was also the LOTG auction that ended prior to last Thursday, and don't forget the big auctions that were taking place and closed during the National. And then there is the National itself where people save up to attend and often make large purchases.

Don't get me wrong, this was a great auction and I think Leon did very well but, I'm also beginning to think he may have left some money on the table due to the timing of when it occurred. I'm guessing the original thought was that having it right after the National would allow for people to see the items and build more interest, and therefore, more bidding. I also noticed that some people posting in this thread mentioned they were a little surprised at how quickly everything closed, despite the 30 minute, lot by lot, carryover bidding. It seemed that some people felt there would be many items remaining open for bidding a lot longer than they were. I'm wondering if there was just too much, too soon, and it ended up effecting Leon's prices realized since his seems to be the last big auction/sale in such a short time frame?

Anyway, just my opinion and something I thought others may like to weigh in on. And besides the two W511 Ruth cards, were there any other lots anyone felt were way underbid?

Bob C

[BeanTown]

Bob, you can also make an argument the other way where lots went much higher than Ebay as well. Ebay does really good with items 500.00 or less IMO, and the AHs do much better with higher end items! Why? Because all the serious collectors who know rarity and value subscribe and participate in most of the big auction companies. Ebay attracts the serious collectors but nit to where we search it daily for deals and cards. The high end cards which go through an AH will be infront of all the serious collectors who have the means to buy. Ebay and AHs appeal to different types of collectors and knowledge. Look at how some reprints sell from other post in Ebay. That would never fly throug an AH.

I don't put too much stock in the timing of Leon's collection being sold. The catalog was out there in plenty of time for people to budget. Plus, there were not alot of duplicates to where it would keep the price down other than like the Ferguson Bakery cards (congrats to Bill and other owner). The format was. Ery fair IMO too! The auction did not extend into the wee hours of the night.

There were many great percieved great values like the Pinkerton Cobb comes to mind. Plus, there were some strong prices which will adjust price guides next year like the Tarzan bread cards and the Cobb Shapiro card.

I think many people will look back at this auction and say I wish I had gone a little bit stronger on this lot. Plus, Im sure the "make a offer" part of Heritage will get tons of use for the next decade because of this auction.

I think Leon said in a post earlier that some items were almost to rare for its own good! I totally agree with that and when a description reads _____ known to exsist, than you might want to jump in that one. Rather than worrying about what a population report isfor the grade of a card.

[mrvster]

[glchen]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

...
I don't put too much stock in the timing of Leon's collection being sold. The catalog was out there in plenty of time for people to budget. Plus, there were not alot of duplicates to where it would keep the price down other than like the Ferguson Bakery cards (congrats to Bill and other owner). The format was. Ery fair IMO too! The auction did not extend into the wee hours of the night.
...

As a Ruth collector, there were seriously a lot of Ruth cards in this auction. I sorta wish that Leon's collection was divided into a couple of auctions like the Dreier collection. You can use gavelsnipe to "snipe" Heritage auctions before Extended bidding starts. Since I have three young children, I was somewhat nervous that I would be busy with kids' stuff (like putting them to bed) during auction close time, so I put "snipes" on all of the lots that I was interested in at bids that I thought were fair value. After the snipes went off at the beginning of extended time, I was literally over 10+K over my budget with my winning max bids. I have a decent sized card collecting budget, but it is definitely not unlimited. Therefore, when I started getting outbid, I didn't think that I had the wherewithal to try to bid again on those lots, and as I mentioned in a previous post, as I started losing most of my bids during extended time, I wish I could have looped back on lots that had already closed.

Saying all of that, I still think that I hit my max budget+ for my winnings in this auction, and my bank account is thanking my for not going in more. Also, I think most of the lots that I was bidding on did extremely well with many going for far more than I thought they would, so I would guess Leon is probably fairly satisfied with how the auction went.

[j_cook]

One card I thought would go a bit higher was the D304 Cobb. I get that it wasn't too high of a grade, but I thought the Marten's back would made up for the light creasing. Looking at other prices realized I guess grade means a bit more than back with that particular issue.

[BobC]

JC - Good points, don't disagree.

Gary - What you're saying kind of goes along with what I was maybe thinking that there was just so much all at once, and that that may have a downward impact on many bids.

The fact that many of these items were so rare/unique does kind of dovetail in with the notion that because of all the other auctions and the National all just having taken place in the couple weeks prior to Leon's auction, bidders may have already spent quite a bit more than expected. And because of that, they may not have gone as high as they would have otherwise for these various rare/unique items. Or they may have decided to just focus on a few lots instead of bidding on many more, which would also tend to have an overall dampening effect on the final prices realized overall. I think it is simple human nature that had there not been other major auctions say for a month or two leading up to Leon's auction, there would have been a lot more activity and stronger prices on at least some of these rare/unique items. Just my opinion. All in all, Leon did very well from where I'm sitting and has to be happy. It will be interesting to see if any items come back into the market within say the next year, and how they do. Only time will tell...........

[ls7plus]

I know that what I spent at the National definitely had an effect on what lots I bid on in Heritage's auction of Leon's collection, limiting me to just the 1929 Leader Novelty Mel Ott. Thus, I think timing was indeed a factor.

Regards,

Larry

[1952boyntoncollector]

[QUOTE=BobC;1443146]Tom,

Yes, I saw that also there were multiple bidders above the final price that Leon's W511 cards achieved. That is what didn't make sense and why I brought it up. I was wondering if there was some credence to the point one person made about the auction getting better results if a different AH were used. It certainly isn't a PSA versus SGC issue as I wouldn't call the W511 cards a normal set that someone would try to establish as the top set on the PSA registry. And besides, PSA only gave it an Authentic grade whereas SGC gave both of Leon's cards a numerical grade.

I'm guessing the Ebay bidders were possibly not bidding in the Heritage auction, or even aware of it. I am sure there are a lot of people that bid on Ebay that don't use auction houses because they either don't know, or don't care, about the AHs, or may even figure that they would pay more through an AH what with the buyer's premium and such that usually gets tacked on to the hammer price. In this case, it turned out to be just the opposite, and only three days after Leon's auction ended!



Sometimes Ebay gets bidders who dont want to wait months on an auction..and Paypal by credit card is a lot easier than sending a check in the mail....

[Peter_Spaeth]

For the 100,000th time you don't pay more with an AH because of a buyer's premium.

[BobC]

Peter,

Absolutely agree with you but, for a vast number of people, that is a perception that the Buyer's Premium somehow means they are paying more. For a lot of people, perception is reality, deserved or not. Same thing may possibly be said about sales tax. A major auction house like Heritage is in multiple states and due to the volume, frequency and dollar amount of auctions they run, they have to follow the letter of the law and properly collect sales tax on many, if not all, items they sell. On Ebay there are some legit businesses that collect sales tax but, even then, it is probably for only one state, not many. And there are what I would think is a decided majority of sellers that treat selling on Ebay as a casual sale, similar to if they are just having a garage sale. They don't register as a vendor in their state and collect sales tax from anyone in such cases.

This is exactly why stores will price items at $4.99 and not an even $5.00. It is why gas stations charge $2.72-9/10 per gallon and not an even cent amount. It is all about perception and what people perceive. If not, why don't all auction houses not bother charging a separate Buyer's Premium as an add on to the hammer price of an auctioned item? If everyone truly factors in such Buyer's Premiums when they're bidding then they could tell seller's they'll just get X percent of whatever the final hammer price is for their commission and everyone should end up in the same place as if they added a separate Buyer's Premium. It doesn't happen though. Some, not all but, some bidders will not factor in the Buyer's Premium, especially in the excitement of the auction format, and end up bidding more than they maybe would have otherwise. And even if they don't end up winning the auction, they make someone else who was determined to win a particular item have to pay more than they maybe would have had to otherwise.

[begsu1013]

I'm guessing the Ebay bidders were possibly not bidding in the Heritage auction, or even aware of it. I am sure there are a lot of people that bid on Ebay that don't use auction houses because they either don't know, or don't care, about the AHs, or may even figure that they would pay more through an AH what with the buyer's premium and such that usually gets tacked on to the hammer price. In this case, it turned out to be just the opposite, and only three days after Leon's auction ended!



Sometimes Ebay gets bidders who dont want to wait months on an auction..and Paypal by credit card is a lot easier than sending a check in the mail....

where is george carlin or dennis miller when ya need them?

ok, i will give it a stab...

i am one of these people, yet i don't feel like i necessarily get better deals on ebay. i feel like i do save time and a ton of aggravations though.

and i don't wanna go off on a rant here, but:

1. there's too damn many of them.

2. the range of different buyer's premiums
____a. this one always get's me: 19.5%*

* just call it 20% and quit fn toying w/ me. you're not doing me any favors by playing coy @ "19.5%" and keeping it under the unmagical number of 20%.
as if simply calling it a 20% buyer's premium is gonna put you in the scumbag class. you know what does put you in that class? going up to 19.5% and getting as close to that unmagical number as you possibly can w/o just being the guy that simply says: "20% buyers premium".

3. i don't want to have to create 20 different accounts and:
____a. divulge my personal info to a bunch of randars
____b. subject myself to give out references (really?)
____c. create another user id to remember (b/c you wont let me use the one i want)
____d. create another password to remember
_______1. some require capital letters
_______2. some require special characters
_______3. some require letters and numbers
_______4. some require capital letters, special characters, letters and numbers
_______5. however, i can rest assured knowing that they will never allow me to use the password i actually want to use.

4. wait around for the wizard to approve me

5. not be able to pay via paypal or at least via credit card
____a. you want me to send ya a check? really. should i send it via horseback? it's 2015 for mastro's sake!
____b. who doesn't like points, free trips or 2% cash back?
____c. who doesn't like 1 - 30 days of free money?
____d. who doesn't want someone else having your back should something transpire

6. not be able to pay w/ a credit card AND not have a fee tacked on
____a. see 2. you've already got me for "19.5%".
____b. now ya wanna charge me another 3% to take my credit card?
____c. go ahead and tack on that processing and handling fee while you are at it.


7. sit around and "preview" for a solid month before the auction starts**

8. then wait around for another month for the auction process**

** as if 7. and 8. weren't enough...i just love this sh!t coming up next: love potion 9.

9. then wait around some more to engage in the wonderful extended bidding war process
____a. just plain bullsh!t if ya ask me
____b. see 7. we've already waited a month to begin with
____c. after 2 fn months of previewing and auctioning, you want me to sit up til 4am and 5am so the bidders can toy w/ each other?


10. shipping.
____a. wont name names, but it took one auction house 3+ weeks to get my package in the mail***

*** not to me. just dropped off. 3+ weeks.

11. no recourse if the ball is dropped
____a. at least w/ ebay if someone screws up. i can neg feedback them and/or caution others
____b. w/ an auction house, what are ya gonna do?

12. i simply cant look at 1 page and see all the items i'm interested in.

13. sales tax.

14. THE FN BUYER'S PREMIUM!
____a. simply hate any buyer's premium. charge that sh!t to the seller. or better yet, simply throw that sh!t up on ebay. let me see it and let's iron out a deal directly where the only fee is via paypal.


could go on and on. i've tried a few different auction houses and to me, it's simply the old school way of doing business. not that there's anything wrong w/ it. it's just not for me and i doubt it will be around for too much longer. "too much longer" being a relative term.

hell, even the auction houses are getting wise these days and advertise their auctions w/ an actual ebay listing and even heritage allows you to login w/ your paypal account and pay (up to $5K, i think) using them....

believe this is fairly recent and a wise move.

again, "fairly recent" being a relative term. as i know this wasn't an option in 2013.

ok, that's enough. auction houses rock. they are the best, yada, yada, yada.

[David R]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

where is george carlin or dennis miller when ya need them?

ok, i will give it a stab...

i am one of these people, yet i don't feel like i necessarily get better deals on ebay. i feel like i do save time and a ton of aggravations though.

and i don't wanna go off on a rant here, but:

1. there's too damn many of them.

2. the range of different buyer's premiums
____a. this one always get's me: 19.5%*

* just call it 20% and quit fn toying w/ me. you're not doing me any favors by playing coy @ "19.5%" and keeping it under the unmagical number of 20%.
as if simply calling it a 20% buyer's premium is gonna put you in the scumbag class. you know what does put you in that class? going up to 19.5% and getting as close to that unmagical number as you possibly can w/o just being the guy that simply says: "20% buyers premium".

3. i don't want to have to create 20 different accounts and:
____a. divulge my personal info to a bunch of randars
____b. subject myself to give out references (really?)
____c. create another user id to remember (b/c you wont let me use the one i want)
____d. create another password to remember
_______1. some require capital letters
_______2. some require special characters
_______3. some require letters and numbers
_______4. some require capital letters, special characters, letters and numbers
_______5. however, i can rest assured knowing that they will never allow me to use the password i actually want to use.

4. wait around for the wizard to approve me

5. not be able to pay via paypal or at least via credit card
____a. you want me to send ya a check? really. should i send it via horseback? it's 2015 for mastro's sake!
____b. who doesn't like points, free trips or 2% cash back?
____c. who doesn't like 1 - 30 days of free money?
____d. who doesn't want someone else having your back should something transpire

6. not be able to pay w/ a credit card AND not have a fee tacked on
____a. see 2. you've already got me for "19.5%".
____b. now ya wanna charge me another 3% to take my credit card?
____c. go ahead and tack on that processing and handling fee while you are at it.


7. sit around and "preview" for a solid month before the auction starts**

8. then wait around for another month for the auction process**

** as if 7. and 8. weren't enough...i just love this sh!t coming up next: love potion 9.

9. then wait around some more to engage in the wonderful extended bidding war process
____a. just plain bullsh!t if ya ask me
____b. see 7. we've already waited a month to begin with
____c. after 2 fn months of previewing and auctioning, you want me to sit up til 4am and 5am so the bidders can toy w/ each other?


10. shipping.
____a. wont name names, but it took one auction house 3+ weeks to get my package in the mail***

*** not to me. just dropped off. 3+ weeks.

11. no recourse if the ball is dropped
____a. at least w/ ebay if someone screws up. i can neg feedback them and/or caution others
____b. w/ an auction house, what are ya gonna do?

12. i simply cant look at 1 page and see all the items i'm interested in.

13. sales tax.

14. THE FN BUYER'S PREMIUM!
____a. simply hate any buyer's premium. charge that sh!t to the seller. or better yet, simply throw that sh!t up on ebay. let me see it and let's iron out a deal directly where the only fee is via paypal.


could go on and on. i've tried a few different auction houses and to me, it's simply the old school way of doing business. not that there's anything wrong w/ it. it's just not for me and i doubt it will be around for too much longer. "too much longer" being a relative term.

hell, even the auction houses are getting wise these days and advertise their auctions w/ an actual ebay listing and even heritage allows you to login w/ your paypal account and pay (up to $5K, i think) using them....

believe this is fairly recent and a wise move.

again, "fairly recent" being a relative term. as i know this wasn't an option in 2013.

ok, that's enough. auction houses rock. they are the best, yada, yada, yada.

+1 I have never bought or sold anything in an auction because it just seemed like a pain in the ass to me. I never complained about it or bothered to think about all the reasons why it was a pain, or to catalogue the reasons, but I got a kick out of this list and agreed with a lot of it. That said, I do enjoy looking at the listings and descriptions, and Leon's in particular was amazing to see.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I just don't see why it's a pain in the ass. You bid, if you win you get invoiced, you pay, they ship your card. A little slower than ebay in most (but not all) cases but so what?

[Econteachert205]

I have to say I'm in the camp of preferring ebay to auction houses. My reasons are similar to some stated. I hate registering for each different auction house. When an ebay auction ends, it actually ends!! I'm not a high end collector with an unlimited budget, so ebay keeps me limited to what's on ebay. Also I just want to pay through paypal if possible. I registered for Leon's auction because it was special and I wanted to participate. Even though I didn't win anything I'm glad to have bid. I collect a little bit of everything, and could register for endless art antique etc auctions. In the end there is really only one reason I stick to ebay. I AM LAZY.