Bill Mastro -- What He Really Thinks of His Hobby Friends

[conor912]

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

Many otherwise intelligent, successful people seem to leave their critical thinking behind them when it comes to cards, memorabilia, etc. Then again, as long as others do the same, the cards appreciate in value whether altered or not, so what difference does it make?

[Rob D.]

There it is, right on cue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff what did you think of the Government's memorandum? I don't have experience in this area, but it seemed, what's the right word, somewhat subdued?

[SMPEP]

But he's right on one thing - there is rampant fraud (trimming, alteration, cutting of sheets) in high grade cards. I seriously don't understand why anyone wants them. I see a PSA 8, 9, 10 and think - fraud. Either it's a doctored card or a grade given to the favorite insiders of PSA/SGC.

The market place dictates the prices. I just don't understand why deep pocket collectors are willing to pay a premium for a card that is almost certainly a lie.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

But he's right on one thing - there is rampant fraud (trimming, alteration, cutting of sheets) in high grade cards. I seriously don't understand why anyone wants them. I see a PSA 8, 9, 10 and think - fraud. Either it's a doctored card or a grade given to the favorite insiders of PSA/SGC.

The market place dictates the prices. I just don't understand why deep pocket collectors are willing to pay a premium for a card that is almost certainly a lie.

Three reasons.
1. They are willfully blind to what is going on.
2. They look pretty.
3. Ego.

I suppose there is a fourth, which I alluded to before, as long as the market overall doesn't care, the cards are for the most part good investments.

[SMPEP]

I think you're right Peter. But I don't get #1 (you should always know what you're buying - especially if you spend that kind of money) and #3 (there are other things you can buy for your ego - and to my mind, many of those are WAY more impressive than owning a psa 10 Brett rc versus owning a PSA 7 Brett rc).

I think #4 (the investment point) is a self-fulling myth.

Everyone on this board is telling everyone they meet - buy the nicest conditioned card you can find because you'll make money when you resell it. I get it. The dealers have sold this line for a long time - because they have to make a profit so they can eat. And it has worked for them because they have always found the greater fool. But why deep-pocketed people fall for this line is strange to me. Essentially they are selling a ponzi scheme. Yes, you make money up until the point comes that the greater fool/new "investor" cannot be found. And it will only take the departure of a few deep-pockets to bring it crashing down on the last card holder.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Three reasons.
1. They are willfully blind to what is going on.
2. They look pretty.
3. Ego.

I suppose there is a fourth, which I alluded to before, as long as the market overall doesn't care, the cards are for the most part good investments.

I think you hit the nail precisely on the head, Peter--absolutely right on!

Best wishes,

Larry

[Rickyy]

I guess the concept of materiality in this case is immaterial.

Ricky Y

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Three reasons.
1. They are willfully blind to what is going on.
2. They look pretty.
3. Ego.

I suppose there is a fourth, which I alluded to before, as long as the market overall doesn't care, the cards are for the most part good investments.

I'll second that as a spot-on summation of the problem Peter.

The credulity of these elite collectors has baffled me to no end. I've had some very engaging discussions with some very well-known, highly intelligent and wealthy collectors from 2007 to 2010 and they either don't seem to see a problem with PSA grading altered cards or they think that PSA get's it right 99.9% of the time. In turn they think I'm completely mistaken or I'm a malcontent with an ax to grind. The most disturbing are the people that don't care if the card is altered - as long as it has a grade. There has to be some sort of psychological disorder that sustains these people.

Even more disturbing in all of this is how PSA walks away relatively unscathed by these horrific sandals. For the few like me that departed from PSA in total disgust, there's always others entering in the hobby to take my place.

At what point does law enforcement step in and say clean up your act or we will shut you down since your service is being used to systematically defraud a lot of people?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

so what difference does it make?

To the guys buying those cards, no difference whatsoever. They can throw their money wherever they want. I completely agree that ego and delusion are the biggest forces at play here. It's really mind-blowing.

I guess the biggest point I wanted to make was about the sheets referred to in the OP. The hobby has put more value on the individual cards with razor edges and corners than it does on the rare hobby artifacts that are pre-war uncut sheets. It's just sad, really. I personally like some age/wear on my cards, but to each his own.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

+1 to the nth degree!!!

Highest regards,

Larry