Bill Mastro -- What He Really Thinks of His Hobby Friends

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

When Bill wasn't suffering from painful urination (yes, he mentioned that in his request for leniency) he was shill bidding like a madman. In the 12 auctions after April of 2007 -- after he learned he was under FBI investigation -- Mastro shill bid in over 1300 lots. One can only imagine how much fraud was going on before he found out the feds were on to him. Yet he argues in his sentencing memo that his shill bidding was "statistically infrequent."

Are his lawyers misrepresenting the facts? Is there some technical or definitional issue that explains the discrepancy between their numbers and the ones you mention? It seems hard to reconcile. 1300 lots in 12 auctions can't be less than 1 percent can it?

[Orioles1954]

Now I know why there are so many ultra high-grade Diamond Stars cards floating around....

[conor912]

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

Many otherwise intelligent, successful people seem to leave their critical thinking behind them when it comes to cards, memorabilia, etc. Then again, as long as others do the same, the cards appreciate in value whether altered or not, so what difference does it make?

[Rob D.]

There it is, right on cue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff what did you think of the Government's memorandum? I don't have experience in this area, but it seemed, what's the right word, somewhat subdued?

[SMPEP]

But he's right on one thing - there is rampant fraud (trimming, alteration, cutting of sheets) in high grade cards. I seriously don't understand why anyone wants them. I see a PSA 8, 9, 10 and think - fraud. Either it's a doctored card or a grade given to the favorite insiders of PSA/SGC.

The market place dictates the prices. I just don't understand why deep pocket collectors are willing to pay a premium for a card that is almost certainly a lie.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

so what difference does it make?

To the guys buying those cards, no difference whatsoever. They can throw their money wherever they want. I completely agree that ego and delusion are the biggest forces at play here. It's really mind-blowing.

I guess the biggest point I wanted to make was about the sheets referred to in the OP. The hobby has put more value on the individual cards with razor edges and corners than it does on the rare hobby artifacts that are pre-war uncut sheets. It's just sad, really. I personally like some age/wear on my cards, but to each his own.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

+1 to the nth degree!!!

Highest regards,

Larry

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are his lawyers misrepresenting the facts? Is there some technical or definitional issue that explains the discrepancy between their numbers and the ones you mention? It seems hard to reconcile. 1300 lots in 12 auctions can't be less than 1 percent can it?

To Bill Mastro, 1300 shilled lots in 12 auctions is "statistically infrequent." If there are three lots in those 12 auctions which were NOT shilled he would also claim that the shilling was "statistically infrequent." Basically he wants credit for not shilling lots in any auctions in which he destroyed the bidding records -- because there was evidence of him shilling the lots.