Scrap Book soaking disaster

[1880nonsports]

encounter a contrary opinion, try and clarify our position, listen to the response, and then agree to disagree. I hope that's where we are. I understand that such situations exist where things just pass through hands without diligence - I just don't think that's the case here. The question of ethical responsibility for disclosure should someone along the chain have known they wouldn't soak is altogether another matter. Most people do the right thing or they don't. It is a question I would have asked - and have on a few FeeBay listings over the years.
It's like a guy who primarily sells graded cards. If they have an expensive card listed ungraded - it raises a flag. May be nothing wrong but just seems a little off. If a big auction house had a scrapbook with valuable cards in it - and they were being offered that way without any mention EITHER WAY as to soakable or not - it raises a flag. May be nothing wrong but just seems a little off. I agree this is just MY take and opinion.
What was lost in my response was the desire to assuage the OP's despair or at least let them know they weren't alone in having gambled and lost and that they should take it just as that whether or not they ever try again. It's a chat board after all and I am just chatting........

[drcy]

The person who posted them on this board seemed to say that, while he wasn't able to remove the glue in h is one attempt, perhaps someone on this board could. I've never soaked album pages and don't know what solvents dissolve this or that glue, so I might have assumed some resident soaking expert could remove them.

I didn't read that he thought they couldn't removed undamaged, but that perhaps someone else could do it and wanted to give it a try. So I don't know that it's a case that the consignor knew they couldn't be removed unnamaged-- and perhaps there there is a solvent out there that would work.

[chipperhank44]

Regardless of what a consignor tells an auction house, does anyone really expect the AH to opine on whether cards can be safely removed from a scrapbook?

Asking an auction house to look into the future, determine what a purchaser will do with their cards, and predict the outcome.....not really in the AH's scope IMO.

[drcy]

If asked, as a seller I'd say "Do what you want to the album pages, they're yours, but don't come back to me for a refund if it doesn't work out. I sold them as cards glued to album pages."

Would I disclose if I was sure they couldn't be removed without damaging the cards? Yes. But, as I said in earlier post, I'm no soaking or glue solvent expert and, unless they were laminated to the pages, I wouldn't be knowledgeable enough on that subject to know they couldn't be removed. I would also be selling with the assumption that some, and perhaps all, bidders intend to keep the album pages as are. I don't sell an old family photo album or Victorian scrap book with the assumption that the buyer is going to take it apart. In fact, I know that many collectors desire the intact albums and would consider removing the pages, photos or scraps akin to cutting out pages of a Spalding album or book. The very decision to remove items from album pages is not only not the seller's responsibility, it is not universal. The idea that any buyer who gets an album or page of cards is going to try to remove the cards is not true-- and, thus, the seller having responsibility for buyers who try to is a stretch. I'm talking about a seller who is just selling an album as an album or a page of cards as a page of cards, not one who promotes the cards as easily removable and resalable as singles.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

Regardless of what a consignor tells an auction house, does anyone really expect the AH to opine on whether cards can be safely removed from a scrapbook?

Asking an auction house to look into the future, determine what a purchaser will do with their cards, and predict the outcome.....not really in the AH's scope IMO.

If the AH thought they could be safely removed;i.e-the consignor told them that he had soaked a few off successfully, I guarantee you the AH would put that in their description.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If the AH thought they could be safely removed;i.e-the consignor told them that he had soaked a few off successfully, I guarantee you the AH would put that in their description.

+1. I agree not in the AHs scope to opinion on whether cards can be soaked off – BUT People in this hobby act with deception by omission, far too often. Include what fits your objective and omit what doesn’t. In most cases they have perfectly plausible deniability - such as having any inkling if a card would soak off or not.

[drcy]

I would say an AH is not responsible to know whether or not items are removable-- and some would say it would be unethical for an auction house to be testing if items are soakable and trying to remove cards from albums--, but, if they know for a fact the cards are not removable, they should disclose that.

I remember years back an auctioneer was auctioning a glass ashtray that had a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle and a couple of pins glued to the bottom (you viewed Mickey's face through the ashtray). The seller clearly noted that there he was certain there was no way to remove the card and pins and that the winner were purchasing a permanently sealed single item.

[EvilKing00]

Ugh thats too bad but u do have some nice fronts.

2 chicken-fried cards thats funny though

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

encounter a contrary opinion, try and clarify our position, listen to the response, and then agree to disagree. I hope that's where we are. I understand that such situations exist where things just pass through hands without diligence - I just don't think that's the case here. The question of ethical responsibility for disclosure should someone along the chain have known they wouldn't soak is altogether another matter. Most people do the right thing or they don't. It is a question I would have asked - and have on a few FeeBay listings over the years.
It's like a guy who primarily sells graded cards. If they have an expensive card listed ungraded - it raises a flag. May be nothing wrong but just seems a little off. If a big auction house had a scrapbook with valuable cards in it - and they were being offered that way without any mention EITHER WAY as to soakable or not - it raises a flag. May be nothing wrong but just seems a little off. I agree this is just MY take and opinion.
What was lost in my response was the desire to assuage the OP's despair or at least let them know they weren't alone in having gambled and lost and that they should take it just as that whether or not they ever try again. It's a chat board after all and I am just chatting........

After having read the thread I missed, yes, something seems off. I disagree with a great deal of what I read in discussion forums - much more than what I encounter in real-life discussions. So it's no big deal - you are in the majority.