Is snipe bidding killing the hobby?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I don't think there is a lack or decrease of high quality stuff being sold. I think there is just less of it on ebay. I think the biggest reason is that small sellers would rather wait on getting paid by a large auction house than deal with the hassle that ebay has become for all but the largest sellers.

I think the fact that less is on ebay and more in AH's has led to more people no longer putting in the search time on ebay and just waiting for the AHs to come around. This has led to lower final prices on ebay and more people just using BIN with BO and waiting for the right offer to come around.

Some people would say I don't deal in "high quality stuff" to begin with since I concentrate on a team that has only been around for 57 years. Whatever you call the stuff I collect, I can't even find rare or unusual stuff very often on ebay anymore. 99% of what I see is either less than 10 years old or extremely common. I do my 50+ searches once every six days and I more often than not find nothing I want to bid on. I'll watch items I already have but usually only find maybe two items a month to bid on.

[egri]

I'm thinking maybe the rare and unusual stuff you're looking for went into personal collections. Personally, I'm planning on keeping all my stuff until I kick the bucket, at which point my kids may or may not sell, so what I have won't hit the market for several decades at least. Maybe it's the same thing at work here.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Some people would say I don't deal in "high quality stuff" to begin with since I concentrate on a team that has only been around for 57 years. Whatever you call the stuff I collect, I can't even find rare or unusual stuff very often on ebay anymore. 99% of what I see is either less than 10 years old or extremely common. I do my 50+ searches once every six days and I more often than not find nothing I want to bid on. I'll watch items I already have but usually only find maybe two items a month to bid on.

Rob,
You are absolutely correct. "high quality Stuff" is a relative term. A rare SF pin may be a holy grail to you, but not to me. I meant no disrespect to anything anyone collects.
My point is that sniping isn't the reason stuff doesn't seem to be as commonly found on ebay. I think your situation is a little different than my example. Your SF collection is so advanced that the things you needs are going to be really really rare. Even if they aren't super expensive, the likely hood of you finding these things is small regardless. 20yrs ago, when ebay first started, I would be willing to bet,you had a much larger want list then than now. It stands to reason the more advance a collector or collection the slower it can be added to.

[Scott Garner]

Not to hijack this thread because it is about sniping, but what Mark just said is also true of The National. Although I still love going to The National, the buying experience is not as fertile for finding items on my want list simply because the list is getting much shorter as my collection becomes more and more advanced.
Just sayin'...

Still, you never know what you might find...
The thrill is still in the hunt!

This has ended up being a very good thread, BTW

[cfhofer]

Aren't their some items you need for your collections that the amount you would be willing to pay is $10-20 more than anyone else? Not to sound arrogant but there are just certain pieces we need that are worth overpaying for.

I know a few collectors who snipe $2000-4000 on every item, even ones which are worth only a few hundred dollars. Why? Because they are playing a game of Russian roulette that you won't be as crazy as them. This ensures they get that piece by paying $10-20 more than you. They can get away with that only because of the hard-ending.

Some of the reasons given above for snipe bidding should apply to auctions with a soft-ending too. Yet action on auctions with a soft-ending is much better throughout the listing period. Take a look at the current Leland’s auction. Why the difference? As a seller, which style would you have more confidence in?

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

I know a few collectors who snipe $2000-4000 on every item, even ones which are worth only a few hundred dollars. Why? Because they are playing a game of Russian roulette that you won't be as crazy as them. This ensures they get that piece by paying $10-20 more than you. They can get away with that only because of the hard-ending...

...action on auctions with a soft-ending is much better throughout the listing period. Take a look at the current Leland’s auction. Why the difference?

1) ...and, they can get away with that too because of very deep pockets and can afford to exceed the market and not worry if they overpay or if auction gets out of control and starts to approach their max. I would only do that if my "Holy Grail" popped up, otherwise my pockets 'aint that deep and my "stones" 'aint that big.

2) ...many people place bids on soft-ending auctions at AHs to get in on the extended bidding. They are still usually not showing their true hand but placing a minimal increment bid that they would happily win the lot at if it were to hold up. It's a minimal place holder bid.

[Lordstan]

What Joe just said above is very true in both cases.

1) Those people who bid $2000-$4000 even on a few hundred dollar item are playing, what could be, a very expensive game of Russian Roulette. What happens if 5 items, ending around the same time, all valued at $400 wind up close to their max for one reason or another? Are they going to be happy shelling out $10K min for items worth $2K? I doubt it, but if they have the money to waste, good for them.
Here is a personal story regarding this situation. I was bidding on a 1934 Signed Goudey of KiKi Cuyler, a few years ago, I figured it was going to take around $1200-1400 to win it. I bid a little early and was winning at $1200 with 2min to go. All of a sudden I am second. I was the only person who bid again up until the end and I bid 4 more times to take the price up to $1960. I just couldn't let myself go higher and lost it. The person who won it, must've been like your friends, set a really high bid to make sure he won. Do you really think he thought it was going to go for $1960? I doubt it, but he took a chance. The best part for me is that I won a better quality Cuyler signed card about 6months later for $400 less.

2) You must bid early in soft ending AHs so that you can bid in the extended bidding time period. I find it's better to bid early on those, so you don't accidentally miss the time

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Rob,
You are absolutely correct. "high quality Stuff" is a relative term. A rare SF pin may be a holy grail to you, but not to me. I meant no disrespect to anything anyone collects.

None taken..it didn't even cross my mind.

Originally Posted by Lordstan

My point is that sniping isn't the reason stuff doesn't seem to be as commonly found on ebay. I think your situation is a little different than my example. Your SF collection is so advanced that the things you needs are going to be really really rare. Even if they aren't super expensive, the likely hood of you finding these things is small regardless. 20yrs ago, when ebay first started, I would be willing to bet,you had a much larger want list then than now. It stands to reason the more advance a collector or collection the slower it can be added to.

Very good points. When I started with ebay in 1998, I was like a kid in a candy store. I'm sure I bought stuff back then that I would pass up now. That said, I did acquire some really good stuff in the early days...stuff I haven't seen since.

Back to topic...sniping MAY have a small part in ebay "drying up." Prices realized probably are a bit lower in that the "dammit! you're NOT going to beat me" bids have become more rare.

[Jewish-collector]

3 things to remember:

There's always someone who has more money to spend for a specific auction item.

The item you really want will be in another auction very soon, perhaps a few weeks or a few months.

As Tom Cruise in the movie Risky Business said, "Sometimes you gotta say...."

[cfhofer]

There are 3.5 million items on eBay under the 'Sports Memorabilia, Cards and Fan Shop' category, yet only 101k are auctions. That means 98% of all sports memorabilia listed on eBay are BIN. Hard-endings is a primary reason for this shift.

Regarding AH action, almost all require a bid 24 hours before the soft-ending. That doesn't explain the action 2-3 weeks beforehand.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

There are 3.5 million items on eBay under the 'Sports Memorabilia, Cards and Fan Shop' category, yet only 101k are auctions. That means 98% of all sports memorabilia listed on eBay are BIN. Hard-endings is a primary reason for this shift.

Regarding AH action, almost all require a bid 24 hours before the soft-ending. That doesn't explain the action 2-3 weeks beforehand.

I think that action might just be a number of bidders getting their initial bids in combined with a few people who may try to bid big at the beginning to try and scare everyone off.

[murphusa]

A spalding first basement trophy went for $5770 today. The price rose $2770 in the last 2 seconds

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by murphusa

A spalding first basement trophy went for $5770 today. The price rose $2770 in the last 2 seconds

I was the direct underbidder and was shocked to lose it by that big of another snipe.

[perezfan]

While this may seem off topic, it's not...

One of the reasons cited for the decrease of quality memorabilia on eBay is that much of it is now mired in advanced collections. These collectors are not willing to part with "the good stuff" and have no interest in flipping it. The increasing scarcity is what causes the higher prices... not sniping. It's a simple case of demand exceeding the available supply.

Spalding Trophies (while always rare/desirable) used to turn up routinely in the catalog auctions, at the National, and on eBay. The one that closed today was the first one in what seemed like an eternity. These spectacular trophies have simply dried up, and because of that, the prices rise.

Conversely, some things that were previously thought to be rare (Stanford Pottery, certain Bobbleheads, 1940s Split-Finger Gloves) have proven to be fairly common. So those prices have dropped. It's simple supply and demand. The Spalding probably would've climbed even higher if sniping wasn't an option.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

There are 3.5 million items on eBay under the 'Sports Memorabilia, Cards and Fan Shop' category, yet only 101k are auctions. That means 98% of all sports memorabilia listed on eBay are BIN. Hard-endings is a primary reason for this shift.

Regarding AH action, almost all require a bid 24 hours before the soft-ending. That doesn't explain the action 2-3 weeks beforehand.

As Mark V. stated earlier, I bid a minimal bid weeks in advance so that I don't forget. Usually by the time the auction comes to the final day I lose interest in most items I bid on. For Hunts online, for example, on the opening days I place a low bid on dozens of items sometimes, and they never ever hold up, but I do it so that I dont foget. Most items I lose interest in.