Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There's language which describes shill bidding by Mastro on a frequent, auction-wide level. Just because parts of the agreement reference specific lots or victims does not mean his fraud was limited to them.

As for not knowing specifically whether one was shilled, so what? If you bid in his auctions you were most likely shilled. If you buy a card in the future which has an artificially high price due to the fraud in Mastro's auctions, you are a victim. And you can write to the judge without knowing specifically if you were defrauded by Mastro especially since the Mastro defendants destroyed bidding records.

I AM going to write a letter tonight...and I urge anyone who has bid in one of his auctions to do so as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The paragraph in the Doug Allen plea agreement about the altered PSA 6 T206 Plank -- which he sent to a card doctor in California for a new back and then on to be graded -- should make people nervous on a number of levels. But most likely it won't, because we don't want to deal with reality.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=35826

Despicable: "This scarcer-backed version of the sought-after card (with a "Sweet Caporal - 350 subjects" advertisement adorning the reverse instead of the more routine "150" variety) boasts wonderful clarity in its back's discreet red inking and perfectly toned surround."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Screenshot part 1.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And 2.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And 2.

I think the biggest crime for you is that no one has informed you to stop using a Windows machine and Internet Explorer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I think the biggest crime for you is that no one has informed you to stop using a Windows machine and Internet Explorer.

Old school and stubborn.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I've been away for the past week - so sorry joining in late.

My two cents is that there was likely a wide scale scheme to defraud for quite a long period of time in various capacities. The most egregious was knowingly selling fake memorabilia - such as the phony Elvis hair or the 1869 Redlegs baseball. Next, and nearly as egregious was selling doctored cards. And yes there was the shill bidding - which is fraud.

To me, the selling of the fake and doctored items is the fraud that keeps on giving since those items will at some point and time will be or have been re-sold and this is the stuff that needs to be sought out and removed and the buyers need to be compensated. I'm not trying to minimize shill bidding, but it's obviously next to impossible to prove if all or most of the evidence has been destroyed and the damages amount to just some percentage of the item purchased (typically 10% to 30%).

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The paragraph in the Doug Allen plea agreement about the altered PSA 6 T206 Plank -- which he sent to a card doctor in California for a new back and then on to be graded -- should make people nervous on a number of levels. But most likely it won't, because we don't want to deal with reality.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=35826

Despicable: "This scarcer-backed version of the sought-after card (with a "Sweet Caporal - 350 subjects" advertisement adorning the reverse instead of the more routine "150" variety) boasts wonderful clarity in its back's discreet red inking and perfectly toned surround."

And there you have it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

And there you have it.

That is one of the most damning things I have seen so far. And it is my understanding, according to the plea agreement, that Doug admitted guilt. I am just shaking my head.....

[HRBAKER]

I've always said the church could learn a lot from this hobby. I've never seen a larger collection of more forgiving people.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I've always said the church could learn a lot from this hobby. I've never seen a larger collection of more forgiving people.

I think more willfully blind than forgiving. A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest, as the song goes.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think more willfully blind than forgiving. A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest, as the song goes.

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

That is one of the most damning things I have seen so far. And it is my understanding, according to the plea agreement, that Doug admitted guilt. I am just shaking my head.....

Gives you a lot of confidence in graded cards, doesn't it, when they slab a trimmed Wagner and a rebacked Plank, cards obviously deserving of a far more exacting review than most.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gives you a lot of confidence in graded cards, doesn't it, when they slab a trimmed Wagner and a rebacked Plank, cards obviously deserving of an exacting review.

+1

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

That is one of the most damning things I have seen so far. And it is my understanding, according to the plea agreement, that Doug admitted guilt. I am just shaking my head.....

Mastro's actions were just as bad if not significantly worse. You should cut the crap and write a letter to the judge explaining how badly they have both damaged the hobby. You're the owner of this board and a leading voice in the hobby. "Leading" is what leaders do. Mastro sent you a gift/bribe for a reason -- because he wanted your help with a positive letter to the court. Can you actually say with a straight face that this man deserves a letter praising him to the judge? Can you actually say with a straight face that the judge doesn't deserve to hear the truth about Mastro and the true extent of his fraud on our hobby?

Lastly, he could have agreed to restitution to his victims -- all of the people who were defrauded in his auctions. And he didn't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Mastro's actions were just as bad if not significantly worse. You should cut the crap and write a letter to the judge explaining how badly they have both damaged the hobby. You're the owner of this board and a leading voice in the hobby. "Leading" is what leaders do. Mastro sent you a gift/bribe for a reason -- because he wanted your help with a positive letter to the court. Can you actually say with a straight face that this man deserves a letter praising him to the judge? Can you actually say with a straight face that the judge doesn't deserve to hear the truth about Mastro and the true extent of his fraud on our hobby?

Lastly, he could have agreed to restitution to his victims -- all of the people who were defrauded in his auctions. And he didn't.

Yes, Mastro altered an even more expensive card, but I doubt that's the point you are trying to make.

[Jobu]

At the risk of appearing to be a bit green, do people here think TPGs simply missed this alteration (and the others) because it was so good or is there likely to have been someone at the TPG who was on the take?

Originally Posted by Leon

That is one of the most damning things I have seen so far. And it is my understanding, according to the plea agreement, that Doug admitted guilt. I am just shaking my head.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jobu

At the risk of appearing to be a bit green, do people here think TPGs simply missed this alteration (and the others) because it was so good or is there likely to have been someone at the TPG who was on the take?

I have no idea in this case, but there are people out there who are very skilled in this sort of work, and remember PSA is not the FBI.

[rdwyer]

Lethal injection and/or restitution!

[Exhibitman]

Anyone want to guess at the odds of Allen and/or Theotikis showing up in Chicago next month?

[keithsky]

How the heck did that T206 Plank even pass the authenticating company with an altered back? Was that PSA? Shouldn't they be held responsible in some way? Apparently they didn't do there job or even know what there doing. Or were they in bed together? Boy alot of questions need to be answered.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by keithsky

How the heck did that T206 Plank even pass the authenticating company with an altered back? Was that PSA? Shouldn't they be held responsible in some way? Apparently they didn't do there job or even know what there doing. Or were they in bed together? Boy alot of questions need to be answered.

You would be suprised how easy it is for even a half assed card doctor to get stuff by ANY of the grading companies. THey are not highly paid experts. They are there to make the grading company $ by grading cards as fast and accurately as posible.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You would be suprised how easy it is for even a half assed card doctor to get stuff by ANY of the grading companies. THey are not highly paid experts. They are there to make the grading company $ by grading cards as fast and accurately as posible.

And yet collectors are still willing to pay astronomical amounts of money for high grade cards based solely on the assessment of the TPG. Why is that?