Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[calvindog]

I'm lost. Are you two discussing a fantasy restitution plan which will never be implemented?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm lost. Are you two discussing a fantasy restitution plan which will never be implemented?

Pretty much ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm lost. Are you two discussing a fantasy restitution plan which will never be implemented?

To some extent, but I am also pointing out that without seeing bidding records it's difficult to know if one was shill bid or not, and thus entitled to restitution (or for that matter to tell a judge how much one was hurt).

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To some extent, but I am also pointing out that without seeing bidding records it's difficult to know if one was shill bid or not, and thus entitled to restitution (or for that matter to tell a judge how much one was hurt).

agreed...I bid on and won...1...high dollar card that may/may not have been shilled...but how can I know?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

agreed...I bid on and won...1...high dollar card that may/may not have been shilled...but how can I know?

Right, that's my point. Obviously if you bid on dozens of items over the years and paid record prices it's a fair inference, but for most people they would seem to have no way of knowing.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right, that's my point. Obviously if you bid on dozens of items over the years and paid record prices it's a fair inference, but for most people they would seem to have no way of knowing.

What about the lots in which the fraud is easily determined? Countless numbers of lots in which Bill/Mastro were the first underbidders? Are those also impossible to determine loss amount? Why no restitution for even those victims?

Again, this thread is not to rub our temples and discuss fantasy restitution scenarios which will not only have zero chance of coming to fruition but will not even be presented to the judge --- unless you actually write a letter to the judge.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What about the lots in which the fraud is easily determined? Countless numbers of lots in which Bill/Mastro were the first underbidders? Are those also impossible to determine loss amount? Why no restitution for even those victims?

Again, this thread is not to rub our temples and discuss fantasy restitution scenarios which will not only have zero chance of coming to fruition but will not even be presented to the judge --- unless you actually write a letter to the judge.

And how does a member of the public not privy to the bidding records know which lots these were?

I asked you before, you tell us why no restitution if the prosecution had all that leverage such that Mastro would not have gone to trial?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And how does a member of the public not privy to the bidding records know which lots these were?

I asked you before, you tell us why no restitution if the prosecution had all that leverage such that Mastro would not have gone to trial?

There is a Mandatory Victim Restitution Act (18 USC sec. 3663A (c)(3) which holds that:

"This section shall not apply in the case of an offense described in paragraph (1)(A)(ii) if the court finds, from facts on the record, that—
(A) the number of identifiable victims is so large as to make restitution impracticable; or
(B) determining complex issues of fact related to the cause or amount of the victim’s losses would complicate or prolong the sentencing process to a degree that the need to provide restitution to any victim is outweighed by the burden on the sentencing process."

This is the reason why restitution was not ordered (and it is noted in the cooperation agreement); however, it doesn't explain why the government did not even attempt to get any forfeiture money from Mastro.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right, that's my point. Obviously if you bid on dozens of items over the years and paid record prices it's a fair inference, but for most people they would seem to have no way of knowing.

Thanks for continuing to support my case .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for continuing to support my case .

Return the gift/bribe and I'll support it even more.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dear Judge Guzman, I have no access to bidding records and no way to know if I personally was harmed or not, or to what extent if I was, but shill bidding is a really really bad thing and I've heard it was pretty extensive here, so throw the book at that bastard Mastro please.

[GaryPassamonte]

Thankfully, I have had no dealings with our criminal justice system. Common sense dictates that compensating the wronged parties financially in some fashion should come first. I have no idea whether I was shilled in a Mastro Auction or not. However, it seems that, in this case, requiring Mastro to pay monetarily in some way would be required. To take Leon's point, it makes more sense to give all bidders something than everyone nothing. Saying that determining exactly who was shilled and how much they were shilled is too difficult a task shouldn't be the final answer. Justice is not being served.