1952 Topps House gray/yellow

[SMPEP]

This is what I get when I post without checking my notes! It should be DPs versus SPs. Here is the layout:

3rd series:
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170
171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180

181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170

Sorry for the confusion.
Patrick

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

This is what I get when I post without checking my notes! It should be DPs versus SPs. Here is the layout:

3rd series:
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170
171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180

181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170

Sorry for the confusion.
Patrick

Patrick,

Did you get this info from viewing an uncut sheet?

Z

[flkersn]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

This is what I get when I post without checking my notes! It should be DPs versus SPs. Here is the layout:

3rd series:
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170
171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180

181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190
131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140
141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150
151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160
161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170

Sorry for the confusion.
Patrick

Just for the heck of it I looked at the PSA pop reports. I summed all the cards with the normal cream back from #131-170 graded by PSA--16,976. Then I looked at all the cards with cream back from #171-190 graded by PSA--7,388. This is a 2.3:1 ratio.

The overall ratio of creams to grays graded by PSA is 31:1. The real ratio is probably a lot higher since only better-looking creams would be sent for grading while most grays will be sent. The ratio of cream to gray in the 131-170 subset is 29.47 and in the 171-190 subset it is 35.35.

Not sure what it all means, but:

First, the totals are generally consistent with the 2:1 ratio suggested for the sheet.

Second it seems to suggest that the 171-190 cards are rarer relative to the 131-170 in gray backs than in cream.

Perhaps this suggests what many of you have said for years--that the gray backs simply did not wear as well over the years (note the paucity of high grade grays) and disappeared. Might it also say something about the distribution method?

Anyway, food for thought and comment. Perhaps no one is interested in this but me, but it's raining here and I was looking for something interesting to do and this was as close as I could come.

Bill

[SMPEP]

I used to look at population reports too. But I think that's a misguided way to look at it. What you get in graded cards is high grade cards. That's a bit random. And cards laid out poorly on the sheet (Gus Bell talking to you!) are always underrepresented. Plus, there's an incentive to get a card graded for every number (so you can have a full set). So I actually think the better methodology is to count total cards for sale on Ebay. This reflect who set builders need and don't need.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

I used to look at population reports too. But I think that's a misguided way to look at it. What you get in graded cards is high grade cards. That's a bit random. And cards laid out poorly on the sheet (Gus Bell talking to you!) are always underrepresented. Plus, there's an incentive to get a card graded for every number (so you can have a full set). So I actually think the better methodology is to count total cards for sale on Ebay. This reflect who set builders need and don't need.

Cheers,
Patrick

I was tracking T201 Mecca Double Folders in the same way to try to determine which ones where quadruple printed versus the single printed cards based upon population reports. After a lot of data collecting I realized I had skewed results as star cards or condition sensitive cards were submitted for grading more frequently than other cards.

Z

[steve B]

As long as you take them in a general sense, and overall ratio is general enough, the population reports can be handy.

I've looked at the numbers for T206 a lot, and overall the HOF players appear to be submitted roughly twice as often as commons. That holds for all the fairly common backs, and looks like it might for the tougher backs as well but the sample size is too small. (Like maybe 10 of a HOFer and 5 for a common for a fairly tough back, lower numbers for the really tough ones) The really difficult cards and the really popular ones break the curve. By the pop reports Magie (A somewhat rare card) is more common than the Magee which is a popular and slightly tough common.

Were the T201 Hof ers graded about twice as often as the commons?

Of course prewar the condition isn't skewed towards the higher grades. Which does complicate things a bit.

Steve B

[SMPEP]

Hi Steve,

I think the usefulness of populations reports may vary set by set, and year (decade?) by year. For 1952 Topps, you're not really dealing with rarities (with the exception of the grey backs) to complete the set. The challenge is more budget related. On the flip side, my other set of collecting interest is the 1923 W572s. The population lists tell you a lot more in that case (especially since many cards have 0 or 1 graded sample). There are obvious unrecognized short prints in that set and using the population report can be very helpful to figure out the set.

But back to the 1952 Topps set, the 1952 population report reflects three things (I think): 1) people submitting high grade cards (regardless of player), 2) stars get graded (these are more resalable), and 3) complete set builders. So when I was trying to figure out the ratios, I found it to be more useful to look at what's on sale on Ebay.

On Ebay, if a card is rarer, fewer people will have it for sale, and when it comes up for sale, more people will buy (unless the price is ridiculous). So if you see fewer, you know this is a shorter print. If a card is more common, there will be more of them and lower demand, so more of them will sit on Ebay for a while. So if you use Ebay as the source (a lot more work), you will see the ratios much more clearly. Both between cards in a given series, as well as between series.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by steve B

As long as you take them in a general sense, and overall ratio is general enough, the population reports can be handy.

.......Were the T201 Hof ers graded about twice as often as the commons?

Of course prewar the condition isn't skewed towards the higher grades. Which does complicate things a bit.

Steve B

Not so much all of the HOFers.....but Cobb was certainly coming up quite a bit more than anticipated. In that set Cobb was at least quadruple printed while most others were double printed.

Z