KC is making MLB all star a bigger joke

[packs]

Yeah I don't see the issue. Plenty of HOFers were placed on all star teams at the twilight of their careers just to be there.

[bn2cardz]

There is a huge difference between HOF players playing after their prime vs what is happening here. Those HOF players had a career and fan base to make it more of an honor towards a veteran's career. These are young players that don't even career numbers to warrant their inclusion.

I really don't have a huge problem with Mike Moustakas as he is having a good season with the same OBP as Donaldson. And someone that can be in the same conversation as their counterpart isn't a big deal to me.

Yet when you look at Infante he has a 14 year career that isn't a HOF career and this season's numbers aren't even good enough for KC to avoid looking for a replacement and has a negative WAR number thus far this season.

[Beatles Guy]

While I agree that the voting is a joke and there are several Royals that do not deserve it, would your opinion be the same if it were all Yankees? This is similar to the complaints we hear from both coasts when there are teams from middle of the country playing in the World Series (boring, nobody will watch, etc). Was Jeter playing last year a problem even though he clearly didn't deserve it?

[packs]

When you say things like the HOFers is different, I can't help but think: no it's not. We're talking about players on a team that is supposed to be made up of the best players in both leagues that don't deserve to be there.

[clydepepper]

Please...let me step in as a neutral voice:


Stop your dang wining and VOTE!


Amen

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

When you say things like the HOFers is different, I can't help but think: no it's not. We're talking about players on a team that is supposed to be made up of the best players in both leagues that don't deserve to be there.

One of the things that makes it different is that the HOF players at the end of a career may be less than they were simply because the season is long and after 15+ years they just aren't able to be 100% for a full season, but most could most likely step it up for a special game. So A guy who used to hit .320 with 30+HR but is hitting say .280 and on a pace for 15-20 HR might still have a great game.


While someone who has never been all that great and currently isn't doing well.....Even if they pick it up for the one game a .250 hitter with no power will be just that, a good player but very average.

Even if they did poorly, who would you rather watch?

steve B

[chaddurbin]

Im gonna go to the beach right now, feel free to vote some more for all your players kc fans, i dont care enuff to debate or vote.

[yanks12025]

Alex Rios is leading the vote for the 4th outfield spot and he has played in 19 games total. Real all star right there

[packs]

It's an easy fix for fans who are upset. Go to the website and vote. But if you don't vote, then how can you be upset?

I'm not upset because I'm not voting. I could care less if a Yankee makes the team and clearly, the rest of us Yankees fans feel the same way. If we felt different, you'd see a team full of Yankees.

[packs]

Originally Posted by steve B

One of the things that makes it different is that the HOF players at the end of a career may be less than they were simply because the season is long and after 15+ years they just aren't able to be 100% for a full season, but most could most likely step it up for a special game. So A guy who used to hit .320 with 30+HR but is hitting say .280 and on a pace for 15-20 HR might still have a great game.


While someone who has never been all that great and currently isn't doing well.....Even if they pick it up for the one game a .250 hitter with no power will be just that, a good player but very average.

Even if they did poorly, who would you rather watch?

steve B

Your argument is based on performance earning you a spot on the team, not fan popularity. But what you're saying is fan popularity is relevant sometimes but not other times. That argument doesn't hold water if what you're saying is that the best players should be chosen for the team.

[steve B]

So that got me wondering just how some of the great players did in their last AS game. I looked at the list of players on the roster the most years and stopped at the 12 time all stars - for no reason other than I got tired of typing. Very few did well at all of 38 players only 5 had even an ok game. And there was a load of 0 for 1 as a pinch hitter.

A few players had their last AS game while they were still doing pretty well and well before retirement.

Aaron 0 for 1
Mays 0 for 1 struck out
Musial 0 for 1
Ripken 1 for 2 - HR
Carew 0 for 2 1 SO
Yastrzemski 0 for 1 struck out
T. Williams 0 for 1
Rose 0 for 1
Mantle 0 for 1 struck out
Berra 0 for 1
Kaline 0 for 1
B.Robinson 0 for 3
Gwynn did not play
O. Smith 0 for 1 3 assists - had to include that, as he was more a fielder than a hitter
Spahn did not play ----1n 1963 a season where he was 23-7 102 SO 2.60 ERA !
Bench 0 for 1
B.Bonds 0 for 2
R Jackson 0 for 2 1 SO
Jeter 2 for 2 1 run
A.Rodriguez most recent 2011 did not play
I. Rodriguez 1 for 2 last AS 4 years before retirement
Brett 0 for 1 last AS 5 years before retirement
DiMaggio did not play
K.Griffey jr 1 for 2 2 RBI 1 SO in 3 PA
M Rivera 1 inning allowed nothing.
Clemente did not play
N. Fox 1 for 3 1 strikeout
F. Robinson 0 for 1
R. Alomar 0 for 2 last AS 3 years before retirement
Boggs 0 for 3
Larkin 0 for 1
McGwire did not play
Ott 0 for 1
Piazza 0 for 2 1 strikeout
M.Ramirez 0 for 2 1 strikeout (Last AS 4 years before retirement)
Schmidt didn't play - retired and refused the spot but is still listed
1987 1 for 2 caught stealing
Seaver 1 inning, 3 hits, 1 error 1 hr 1so 1 run (last AS 5 years before retirement)
Winfield 1 for 3 run scored (Last AS 6years before retirement)


Steve B

[packs]

Yeah but what is your point exactly? Should fan popularity factor into all star game voting? If yes, then there's nothing to complain about. If no, then you can't argue that a HOFer in their final twilight years who is having a terrible season (see Willie Mays 1972 & 1973) belongs on the team.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah but what is your point exactly? Should fan popularity factor into all star game voting? If yes, then there's nothing to complain about. If no, then you can't argue that a HOFer in their final twilight years who is having a terrible season (see Willie Mays 1972 & 1973) belongs on the team.

I know everyone wanted Mickey to be there in '68! The great ones deserve a final bow!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah but what is your point exactly? Should fan popularity factor into all star game voting? If yes, then there's nothing to complain about. If no, then you can't argue that a HOFer in their final twilight years who is having a terrible season (see Willie Mays 1972 & 1973) belongs on the team.

That was sort of my point. I had expected that more of the really great players would have done well despite being past their prime, some well past. So I figured I'd try to look it up quickly. And what I found was--------

that with few exceptions a great player towards the end of their career wasn't used the way a younger player would be - Most were used as pinch hitters if they even got into the game. Making the roster spot sort of ceremonial rather than competitive.

That even very established players who'd been all-stars regularly didn't do all that well.

That there's a pretty solid indicator of how the game has become more of a marketing exercise that an actual competition. Can you imagine having a guy with an ERA under 3 who is headed for 23 wins and yet he doesn't even play? That was Spahn in 63. Today not only does every team get someone on the roster, there's a serious attempt at playing everyone.


And since it's a marketing exercise - and at least in part has been since the 70's and probably before (Who didn't grab a fistful of those computer card ballots and spend part of the game punching out all the home team players?)
I'm not sure if the selection of those towards their career end was done by the fans or by the manager picking them as reserves. Probably the manager for most of them.

It's all about the money, sure having the best at each position for that year would be more correct, but with the people who may only watch the AS game on TV and that's their one game for the year it's more about marketability.
For myself, I'd rather see Reggie strike out one more time or see Ozzie Smith make a few more plays than see some guy I've never heard of get a hit when he's only there because while mediocre he's the best player on a very average team.

Now if they backed the roster down to the same as a normal team has during the season so the spots were actually the best players I might think differently. (To say nothing of not using a player because he might have to pitch within the next week or two)

Steve B