PWCC & eBay - help us improve the hobby

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by japhi

Wow what a pile on. I don't have a horse in this race but I find amazing how clean some folks on here manage to run their business.

Brent's big mistake of course was his original post. Most of us have made mistakes in business, and I'm sure some folks here have done much worse.

I will say he's an idiot for posting and he underestimated how much free time some folks have, and how much enjoyment they get from trying to take others down and how some guys here are just downright angry.

Actually, I think it's the massive fraud in his auctions, permitting consignors to bid on their own lots, the tax cheating and the bad scans that were his big mistakes. Posting on here was just idiotic. But Doug Allen and John Rogers did the same thing.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually, I think it's the massive fraud in his auctions, the tax cheating and the bad scans that were his big mistakes. Posting on here was just idiotic. But Doug Allen and John Rogers did the same thing.

I guess everyone has a different sense of proportion.

I just don't get as worked up as you guys about a scan that is too bright, a guy bidding on his own cards, or a seller offering to ship a card out of state. None of those things really have much of an impact on me. I can always return the card, not pay if I feel shilled and frankly I couldn't care less about California's tax situation. And of course, I could just not bid in his auctions.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by japhi

I guess everyone has a different sense of proportion.

I just don't get as worked up as you guys about a scan that is too bright, a guy bidding on his own cards, or a seller offering to ship a card out of state. None of those things really have much of an impact on me. I can always return the card, not pay if I feel shilled and frankly I couldn't care less about California's tax situation. And of course, I could just not bid in his auctions.

This is the first intelligent thing posted here.

I'm surprised how worked up some people are getting

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

This is the first intelligent thing posted here.

I'm surprised how worked up some people are getting

Jason, I don't think folks who have posted here about his admissions are wrecked over this or pacing back and forth in their houses. If anything it's par for the course the hobby is full of not so above board folks. With that said you're ok with getting shilled or having a business owner turning a blind eye to things that could cost you extra money...that doesn't bother you at all? Interesting....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Jason, I don't think folks who have posted here about his admissions are wrecked over this or pacing back and forth in their houses. If anything it's par for the course the hobby is full of not so above board folks. With that said you're ok with getting shilled or having a business owner turning a blind eye to things that could cost you extra money...that doesn't bother you at all? Interesting....

exactly...because some of us "care" that the hobby is littered with corruption and crookery...and want a "safer" place to play in...that makes us losers with too much time on our hands?

you all who couldn't care less should be thanking us for trying to remedy the problem...not that any of us expect or even want that!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Jason, I don't think folks who have posted here about his admissions are wrecked over this or pacing back and forth in their houses. If anything it's par for the course the hobby is full of not so above board folks. With that said you're ok with getting shilled or having a business owner turning a blind eye to things that could cost you extra money...that doesn't bother you at all? Interesting....

The level of intelligence of some of these responses just shows me how little some have learned since the Mastro debacle -- and how easy it is to rip off collectors. But I think anyone with an IQ north of 100 knew this already.

[chaddurbin]

hey you guys complaining...change from those sweatpants you're wearing, get out of your mom's basement and do something productive with your lives...or just get a life instead of ruining the great hobby experience the rest of us are having!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

hey you guys complaining...change from those sweatpants you're wearing, get out of your mom's basement and do something productive with your lives...or just get a life instead of ruining the great hobby experience the rest of us are having!

i never leave the house in sweatpants!

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

hey you guys complaining...change from those sweatpants you're wearing, get out of your mom's basement and do something productive with your lives...or just get a life instead of ruining the great hobby experience the rest of us are having!

LOL, Quan.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Jason, I don't think folks who have posted here about his admissions are wrecked over this or pacing back and forth in their houses. If anything it's par for the course the hobby is full of not so above board folks. With that said you're ok with getting shilled or having a business owner turning a blind eye to things that could cost you extra money...that doesn't bother you at all? Interesting....

John, while I agree with you that most posters are not "wrecked" over this, there is certainly a disproportionate level of anger by many considering the nature of the original post. As Matt said, everyone has a different sense of proportion.

If people want to get upset over this, that's their purgative.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If people want to get upset over this, that's their purgative.

Totally my purgative, thanks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

John, while I agree with you that most posters are not "wrecked" over this, there is certainly a disproportionate level of anger by many considering the nature of the original post. As Matt said, everyone has a different sense of proportion.

If people want to get upset over this, that's their purgative.

Jason, the nature of the original post -- the righteous indignation over people raising questions, the "not in my DNA" choirboy shtick -- is precisely why people are reacting as they do.

[Pat R]

....

[pokerplyr80]

I was not actively collecting in 2010 and don't know if letting consignors place a bid was an announced policy or against Ebay rules. Since it seems everyone was unaware he had this policy I'm surprised he mentioned it. At least he's willing to admit they made a mistake.

I can't speak on helping buyers evade sales tax in California as I have no knowledge of this. Many purchase online to avoid sales tax and I would be surprised if more than a couple people on this entire forum self report their online purchases to pay the proper sales tax. Does that mean we're all guilty of tax fraud? By the letter of the law I'm sure it does. I know Brent has since moved his business to Oregon. Having to collect sales tax in the largest state in the country would put his business at a disadvantage. If he simply suggested to customers they can avoid paying sales tax by shipping to an out of state address or PO Box I don't see a problem.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I was not actively collecting in 2010 and don't know if letting consignors place a bid was an announced policy or against Ebay rules. Since it seems everyone was unaware he had this policy I'm surprised he mentioned it. At least he's willing to admit they made a mistake.

I can't speak on helping buyers evade sales tax in California as I have no knowledge of this. Many purchase online to avoid sales tax and I would be surprised if more than a couple people on this entire forum self report their online purchases to pay the proper sales tax. Does that mean we're all guilty of tax fraud? By the letter of the law I'm sure it does. I know Brent has since moved his business to Oregon. Having to collect sales tax in the largest state in the country would put his business at a disadvantage. If he simply suggested to customers they can avoid paying sales tax by shipping to an out of state address or PO Box I don't see a problem.

So if complying with the law puts you at a disadvantage that makes it OK to break the law? Wow. I guess that's an interesting libertarian view. I have my doubts about its merit as a legal defense though.

By the way I think the issue may have been encouraging people to pay by check or money order, not shipping out of state.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I was not actively collecting in 2010 and don't know if letting consignors place a bid was an announced policy or against Ebay rules. Since it seems everyone was unaware he had this policy I'm surprised he mentioned it. At least he's willing to admit they made a mistake.

It has ALWAYS been against the rules on eBay.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Tabe

It has ALWAYS been against the rules on eBay.

It's strange that he would mention that on this forum then. With everything people were already unhappy about here no one was mentioning that. I see what you guys are saying about him claiming to not have heard anyone complaining about his scans. It seems he may have done himself a disservice posting in this forum. It certainly doesn't seem to be hurting his auction results though.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

It's strange that he would mention that on this forum then. With everything people were already unhappy about here no one was mentioning that. I see what you guys are saying about him claiming to not have heard anyone complaining about his scans. It seems he may have done himself a disservice posting in this forum. It certainly doesn't seem to be hurting his auction results though.

He did himself a disservice when he admitted committing fraud -- and now you're wondering why the admitted fraudster's auction results are not hurt as a result of his fraud? Is this the slow learners class?

[Joshchisox08]

I just won a pretty good card for a very good price. I've yet to receive it but I will say that all the other PWCC auctions I bid on soared well over where I tried to bid for them.

I didn't know about the extent of shill bidding and letting co-signers bid on their own items is total BS.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

He did himself a disservice when he admitted committing fraud -- and now you're wondering why the admitted fraudster's auction results are not hurt as a result of his fraud? Is this the slow learners class?

I think what Jesse means is that no matter what gets revealed about an auction house, people continue to do business with them. We see that time and again. Stuff trumps all.

And yes, Brent should have left well enough alone, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by calvindog

He did himself a disservice when he admitted committing fraud -- and now you're wondering why the admitted fraudster's auction results are not hurt as a result of his fraud? Is this the slow learners class?

He also claims that his consignor's shill bidding did not cause any negative to a bidder or eBay. Seems unlikely.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by swarmee

He also claims that his consignor's shill bidding did not cause any negative to a bidder or eBay. Seems unlikely.

Of course not. He broke eBay's rules by allowing consignors to bid on their own lots -- but naturally eBay wasn't affected, bidders weren't affected and the hobby wasn't affected. Brent's pockets, I'm guessing, were affected.

He lies, he cheats, he gets caught lying and cheating, the shill bidding in his auctions is extraordinary -- yet he comes on here with his righteous indignation about how dishonesty is not "in his DNA" and then admits fraud almost immediately. What bothers me more about the fraudsters is their ability to delude themselves into thinking they can fool everyone. Doug, Bill, Rogers all did the same thing, usually on this board. I suspect Mastro would have as well if he knew how to use the computer for purposes other than to run up Mastro Auction lots.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by calvindog

He did himself a disservice when he admitted committing fraud -- and now you're wondering why the admitted fraudster's auction results are not hurt as a result of his fraud? Is this the slow learners class?

What I meant is that it since that there are a relatively small number of people buying very high end sports cards, I'm surprised they are still willing to pay such a premium for his cards if this stuff is common knowledge. I was unaware of most of it myself.

My other point was it seemed most on this forum, myself included, had no idea he used to allow people to bid on their own auctions against Ebay rules. I don't know why he would have brought that up, although he did say he only mentioned it to point out that they have learned from their mistakes and no longer engage in those practices.

[turtleguy64]

Jeff,you've made my night on the forum.I've added purgative to my new vocabulary list in the DuckHunter Dynasty folder.Thanks !