Vic Janowicz

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hi Jeff, From my experience SMR is fine for most cards. I collect HOF rookies (at least what the registry calls a rookie) and it's always pretty close.

For example, I won my PSA 5 Steve Van Buren at auction for around 110 within the past year. 214 on that card is way high and I'll tell you why. And honestly I'm not trying to be a jerk as you are one of my best collecting colleagues. VCP includes the blue sock variation which sells much higher. They distinguish the yellow jersey, but not the blue sock. I tried to tell them, but we weren't speaking the same language and I gave up.

You can double check, but I think VCP average includes BINs and collectors can overpay in a BIN situation - I've done it. And again, needs verification, I believe the average excludes results from over 2? years ago approximately, so even though they correctly exclude "old" results, "old" is subjective and I've noticed times this makes the average less than my gut tells me the next one will sell for. I get your point though - VCP is great - includes a lot of results, not just eBay and is based on ACTUAL data. I can use it how I like - usually I just pick relevant auctions, mix with my subjective opinion, and come up with a valuation. All that said, I don't usually find it's much different than SMR or my SMR + $15 for HOFers rule of thumb. On a 500 dollar card, sure I should do my homework, but on a $50 dollar card.... Eh, SMR and an eBay search is usually ok.

If dealers are quoting you SMR, maybe you should listen - you may get a deal!!! Check out SMR on high numbered 35 Chicles....

With regard to this card - still seems high to me, but if I needed it for my set, I'm sure I'd pay market rate. I'd hate to reveal what I paid for my Bull Tosi who while I'm sure was a good guy, and has a card that is very nice aesthetically, had a short undistinguished playing career. In that case though, at least I understand the price driver.

Finally, I think you see what I'm getting at. Janowicz 51 card is at least somewhat price comparable (assuming the same condition) to the first mainstream issue cards from similar years of some of the games' all-time great players - Van Buren, Trippi, Waterfield, Motley, Perry, etc. Interesting stuff. The one thing I can think of is we didn't have a lot (any) mainstream sets between 35 and 48. So a 48 Van Buren is somewhat late - not exactly an LSU Van Buren, say one existed. With Perry and Motley, their cards are somewhat late because we needed the AAFC to merge in with the NFL before we got mainstream cards of those guys. And Janowicz is a true college card like the 48 Leaf Doak Walker. I still feel like I'm grasping at straws though. I guess it's full circle back to the Heisman as an explanation - maybe this: http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...t.aspx?s=16039

[Laxcat]

I've been collecting Heisman autos since I was 12. The Heisman factor is the main reason it carries a premium. Plus early topps FB(Felts and magic) are way cool and collectible.

That's just my opinion take it how you will.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Matt, thanks - makes sense. And nice auto! Looking at the magic checklist, it looks like it didn't wind up with any HOFers? I saw Bill Wade who led his team to a title, but as a pro collector and not college, the set is heavy on names I don't recognize.

[Laxcat]

I'm from Austin and everything University of Texas carried a premium down here. Mix that with pre Ebay days. I looked forever, at every show, for the Byron Townsend from that set. The day I found one I was so happy you would have thought I found a Mantle rookie for a dollar. I think those first two topps FB sets are tougher than we believe. I feel they don't get the love they deserve because they are all of college players. Of course you would have to discredit the popularity of the 55 AA for that theory to be true. If a felt Paterno or Darrell Royal doesn't do it for you; I don't know what will. Still never seen a Royal in person.

The 51 Magic is a great set. Good hunting to you.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Hi Jeff, From my experience SMR is fine for most cards. I collect HOF rookies (at least what the registry calls a rookie) and it's always pretty close.

For example, I won my PSA 5 Steve Van Buren at auction for around 110 within the past year. 214 on that card is way high and I'll tell you why. And honestly I'm not trying to be a jerk as you are one of my best collecting colleagues. VCP includes the blue sock variation which sells much higher. They distinguish the yellow jersey, but not the blue sock. I tried to tell them, but we weren't speaking the same language and I gave up.

You can double check, but I think VCP average includes BINs and collectors can overpay in a BIN situation - I've done it. And again, needs verification, I believe the average excludes results from over 2? years ago approximately, so even though they correctly exclude "old" results, "old" is subjective and I've noticed times this makes the average less than my gut tells me the next one will sell for. I get your point though - VCP is great - includes a lot of results, not just eBay and is based on ACTUAL data. I can use it how I like - usually I just pick relevant auctions, mix with my subjective opinion, and come up with a valuation. All that said, I don't usually find it's much different than SMR or my SMR + $15 for HOFers rule of thumb. On a 500 dollar card, sure I should do my homework, but on a $50 dollar card.... Eh, SMR and an eBay search is usually ok.

If dealers are quoting you SMR, maybe you should listen - you may get a deal!!! Check out SMR on high numbered 35 Chicles....

With regard to this card - still seems high to me, but if I needed it for my set, I'm sure I'd pay market rate. I'd hate to reveal what I paid for my Bull Tosi who while I'm sure was a good guy, and has a card that is very nice aesthetically, had a short undistinguished playing career. In that case though, at least I understand the price driver.

Finally, I think you see what I'm getting at. Janowicz 51 card is at least somewhat price comparable (assuming the same condition) to the first mainstream issue cards from similar years of some of the games' all-time great players - Van Buren, Trippi, Waterfield, Motley, Perry, etc. Interesting stuff. The one thing I can think of is we didn't have a lot (any) mainstream sets between 35 and 48. So a 48 Van Buren is somewhat late - not exactly an LSU Van Buren, say one existed. With Perry and Motley, their cards are somewhat late because we needed the AAFC to merge in with the NFL before we got mainstream cards of those guys. And Janowicz is a true college card like the 48 Leaf Doak Walker. I still feel like I'm grasping at straws though. I guess it's full circle back to the Heisman as an explanation - maybe this: http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...t.aspx?s=16039

All good points, John. It appears VCP now DOES differentiate the blue sock variation as it has its own listing now. I was using the Blue Jersey category for the price I quoted and didn't recognize that the Green Jersey is substantially lower. My bad on that. VCP does include BINs but I don't see anything wrong with that as compared to SMR. My understanding is SMR is collected by asking dealers what they charge for cards and that might have a BIN flavor to it as well.

I agree that for some cards it is close but for thinly traded / pre-war cards my experience has been that it's not close at all. SRM tends to be what dealers WISH they could sell those cards for instead of what they actually do. Yes, there are exceptions but again my experience is that dealers just don't quote SMR if they think its too low ... only when they think its too high!

Finally, its hard to trust any pricing guide that owned and operated by a grading company. Same with Beckett. Just too many conflicts to account for.

I do agree that Janowicz value is mostly due to his Heisman stature and that's good thing in my book.

jeff

[LuckyLarry]

You're right Matt, the '51 Magic set is a great little set. And cheap too! Here's a scan of the Townsend card in my set: (near set haha)

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

You're right Matt, the '51 Magic set is a great little set. And cheap too! Here's a scan of the Townsend card in my set: (near set haha)

Larry- that card has the infamous tower on it too. My dad was on campus when that sh*t went down. Definitely a darker part of Austin history.

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by Laxcat

Larry- that card has the infamous tower on it too. My dad was on campus when that sh*t went down. Definitely a darker part of Austin history.

8/1/66 I was thirteen years old in Southern California. I must have forgotten about this.
Larry